There are many people - both American and Israel politicians - who have said that there is no Palestine and they should be moved to Jordan. Could you guys explain how one is advocating ethnic cleansing and is anti-Semitic while the other is a valid policy opinion that doesn't cause the same kind of uproar?
True...this is how the temple had been built then destructed , though a peaceful alternative would be more welcomed
I said why aren't American/Israeli politicians who publicly support moving Palestinians to Jordan not generating the same kind of uproar?
There is a push by Jews and Zionists to make any criticism of Israeli behavior anti-semitic. it's pathetic. It's another example of how Israel tries to control the story and whitewash exactly what they've done. There was actually a story about how the University of Cal system had Jewish students pushing the idea that anti-Zionist comments are racist. Never underestimate the scumbag tactics of Israel and its supporters.
I'm sorry I'm not familiar with any American or Israeli politicians who have advocated that position nor what sort of uproar may or may not have been associated with such advocacy. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I couldn't name you a single person who has said so (even after a brief google search), so I'm probably not qualified to provide any analysis on the asymmetry, if any exists. There is a general knowledge of the ethnic cleansing practices that Israel engages in right now, and the mood of this country seems to be generally in favor, though there is a vocal minority (of which you and I are a part) that condemn Israel for it. I think the majority identifies with Israeli Jews for cultural and historical reasons, and identifies Palestinians as civilizational enemies and therefore find it relatively easy to look the other way or find rationalizations when Israel does wrong. Meanwhile, we are quick to identify when Palestinians do wrong because we are looking for reasons to condemn them. So, a suggestion that Israel be ethnically cleansed of Jews is quickly seized upon and causes an uproar.
http://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2015/12/27/israeli-minister-palestinians-should-go-to-jordan/ That is just one example. The entire Israeli right believes Palestinians should just go to Jordan - this has been a position for the last 25 years. Yet no one really gets upset about this. Thats kinda the point - it's completely ok to talk about moving Palestinians - that's not a position that going you thrown out of your party. Israel is conducting ethnic cleansing as you have pointed out. Yet there is not much of an uproar in the British House of Commons. But if an minister in the left says anything about moving Israelis - all of a sudden they are anti-Semitic?
http://realnewsrightnow.com/2015/03...nal-support-to-relocate-palestine-to-wyoming/ i don't find it ...terrible to relocate , when the control of Israelis ,Assad and Iraq's militia or filthy refuges camps are the alternatives
This particular example isn't as strongly worded as the OP example. OP example is advocating an affirmative political move to remove people, whereas this one uses a passive voice and it isn't clear whether the implication is that the government should kick them out or that they should self-deport. But anyway, thanks for the example. I wouldn't say no one objects. But objectors are in the minority, and politicians particularly don't seem to see any advantage in objecting. I don't think any of that means we should rationalize or ignore suggestions that Israel should be dissolved. I'm not going to play the game and go get outraged. But you asked me if I thought it was anti-semitic, so I gave my opinion. I wouldn't endorse any such plan, but Palestinians would be a lot better off in Wyoming than in Palestine -- of course, so would the Jews if they came over.
What else would we expect from you and your obsession with Islam. I suspect if I called Jews members of a death cult you'd be the first one to trot out the anti-Semitic card but somehow you can call Islam a death cult and that's okay in your warped mind. Nice job.
Criticizing the Israeli government for not honoring the treaties it has signed, for perpetuating the status quo in terms of the occupation and incentivizing settlement in the form of tax breaks, for not providing adequate power and water to people under it's control, for not allowing Gaza to operate a port, etc...all of these things are legitimate criticism, no different than criticizing any other government. But this is not, in fact, what often happens. Instead, people project themselves into the tribalism, and it goes both ways, where people with no connection to the place insist that Palestinians be "transfered" to Jordan, since Jordan was the Arab slice of what was once Mandatory Palestine, or that all Palestinians somehow hold collective blame for terrorism, and on that basis should be denied statehood, and often, basic human rights in defiance of every international treaty. It works the other way too. Instead of criticizing the Likud party, or the Israeli government, it's "the Jews" no matter where they are from or where the live or who they vote for who hold collective responsibility for Israeli occupation, or "The Zionists" which by definition, is inclusive of anyone that thinks Jews shouldn't have to constantly defend the right of their state to exist. I've been kicked out of places and subjected to all sorts of assumptions when I tell people I lived in Israel or was married to an Israeli, or went to grad school in Israel. Anti-semitism is certainly very much alive, and it's never far from the BDS movement and often smudges and de-legitimizes perfectly legitimate criticism of the political situation there. And it creates a sanctuary for the very worst elements that live within it. Bibi or his counterparts in Hamas or the PFLP or whatever group can always say "Oh, but what can I do, with all this oppression threatening my very existence but bomb the holy **** out of the other?" And well-meaning and misinformed, self-righteous fellow travellers solemnly nod their heads in agreement. You can look any day in Haaretz, the last real left-leaning paper in Israel and find op-eds about these things. The vast majority of writers there are outspokenly against the occupation, a majority at this point even advocate a bi-national state (even a few conservatives like Moshe Arens) but nearly all lament the inherent problem that right-wingers in the west give cover to the occupation, and left-wingers in the west give legitimacy to anti-semitism in terms of criticizing the government, since it is often just assumed the state should never have existed in the first place, and any position nuanced between those extremes is unacceptable to all the world's most opinionated people who don't have to live there. There are plenty of things that Israel as a country should be held accountable for and aren't by the US especially and at least on paper, the US has a firm position on these abuses of power, but the last president to ever give this policy any teeth was George Bush Sr.
Don't bother - he will never debate genuinely. I think anti-Semitism is alive and well, just is Islamophobia. Both of these things are hatred and fear of a people. Criticism of Israel or of any repressive Arab states or any state for that matter is fair game. Criticism of an entire people merely based on religion or race is xenophobia.
Just sticky Deji's posts at the top. Great take on both sides, and like would be expected the answer lies in the middle. This dude lived there and is more informed than anybody else in this thread or sub forum. Laughable to see people come in with their own fantasies and ignore the stuff he says.
The US contains almost as many Jews as Israel. Israel does not have a monopoly on being Jewish. Many "true Jews" are against the state of Israel. The argument goes: God scattered the Jews. . . . And the Messiah (not the U.N.-Israeli-U.S. military) will restore the Jews to unity. . . . Famous Jewish commentators and legal authorities make it clear as day. . . .
The difference is that 'islamopobia' has more merit than anti-Semitism . I am legitimately afraid of an ideology that makes a warlord a prime example of a morally sound man. I'm even more afraid when a large share of those who assign themselves with that ideology follow the ideology literally. The Old Testament is one harsh book but the difference between the Islamic community and the Jewish community is one community takes their faith far more literally. The closest thing we have to a Jewish theocracy is Israel. Any atheists stoned to death recently? Any women who's testimony is worth half of a man's? Any apostate Jews hanged recently?
