Sources: Jvg not interested in Rockets because of relationship with owner

I'm not sure I'm on board with JVG. Obviously he's a lot better than McHale, and even more so JB, but he still failed to get out of the first round in 07 when we had the better team. And his offense wasn't all that great back in 03-07 and if it is the same offense, it'd be even less effective today IMO.

I do like that he holds players accountable though, I can't say his teams didn't play hard, which would be a massive improvement.

 

Me thinks you're the one who needs to think.

 

Someone never watched the Rockets play when JVG was their coach.

I can't believe people think JVG's offense here was any good. His defense was great (Thibs I'm sure had a lot to do with it) but his offense? NO.

 

JVG coaches offense, the way I play offense on NBA 2K, set a screen with the PF with Harden as the ball handler. :grin:

 

The offense is a concern, although the defense will be so good, we'll still win a lot of games.

As for JVG's playoff performance, I'll cut him some slack on 2004. The Rockets were not gonna beat the Lakers in the first round. They should've made it more of a series though. Had Yao been able to grab a rebound at the end of Game 1, they would've stolen that one. And Game 4 was right there for the taking in OT. Honestly, that series should've gone to at least 6 games.

2005 was frustrating. If you'd told me before the series started that the Rockets would lose in 7, I would've been fine with that. The Mavs owned us back then. And they closed the season on a lengthy winning streak just like we did. But once we got the first 2 games in Dallas and were up 10 in the 2nd half of Game 3 at home, the collapse from that point forward was a choke job. Yes, they were more talented than us, but you have to take care of business when you're in that situation.

2006 was a lost season.

2007 was another frustrating series. Again, the Jazz were better than us talentwise, but they were a lousy road team and very young and inexperienced(aside from Okur and Fisher who'd won titles). In retrospect though, the Rockets were lucky to even get it to Game 7. Recall that Utah was up big on us in Games 1, 2, and 5 at Toyota Center. It took huge comebacks in all of those to win. And we barely eeked out that Game 5 victory.

I'd be willing to give JVG another shot since those 2003-07 teams had little-to-no depth and were led by Francis and McGrady, both of whom were not known as great closers(Francis' teams would routinely wind up in the lottery and T-Mac could never get out of the first round). Give him James Harden and a decent amount of talent around him and I'll bet the results would be a lot different the second time around.

 

Good points by both sides of the pond, enjoyed the read thank you...

 

why do you think that this all not related?

you think JVG was there and had no input in the roster, when half the roster is a former knick?

did you not see the shooting percentages?


All coaches have input on their roster, that's why JVG had former Knicks and Rick had former Kings.

Once Rick didn't get the players he wanted, Morey and him clashed.

 

Defenses tend to adapt. That's how it can get worse. If you do the same predictable thing over and over again, the results will get worse on each try. Whether you're James Harden or Michael Jordan, that approach will not work. It is precisely why teams are proving more capable of guarding Harden - overplay his left hand, let him drive into the defense, no one reaches. That's it, we can never again go back to that.

Also, again with these excuses for dead end strategy. JVG had Yao Ming, Tracy McGrady and a bunch of shooters. That's PLENTY for constructing an offense. He just chose the easy way out.

Curry is shooting historic lights out - why not just feed Curry over and over again? See how this can apply to anyone:

Because if you have a Curry, that is what you do to be able to get open perimeter shots. Curry still did his fade away turn around jumpers. Everyone in the world was saying Curry needed to play tougher around the basket. It made the game easier for all. We need a more strict coach that will get this team in order. No coach would have done anything differently with him.

I feel like a lot of people have a deep desire to see these guys punished. It won't work. It won't work. It won't work. These are mid-20's multi millionaires with 100% access to their fanbase. If you be strict, they will just shut down and leave when the time comes. You can say you don't want that type of player - well good luck finding any other type of player in 2016. This is what the NBA has to offer, and we have to have the staff capable of making use of almost everyone. We're not a big market team, we can't afford to be picky with EVERYONE'S mindset. Give these guys their freedom WITH repercussions and credible tactical guidance.

We are not going to yell these players to a championship, especially James Harden. I KNOW that's how most older fans are motivated, but that is simply not how these NBA players are motivated. James Harden doesn't need someone to come in and tell him he's a piece of ****. He needs someone to talk to him about the fundamental error in the idea that his team can succeed with him giving minimal effort on defense. It's a mental and spiritual problem. You don't bring in a plumber to fix your interior decoration.

 

Coaches can adapt just like players can. I think JVG stepping back and watching Kerr, Pop, Clifford, etc. all evolve their offenses around their personnel will encourage him to do the same.

 

Narratives that JVG's offense was so hard to watch, and featured zero ball movement are just that... narratives and presumptions based on stereotype.

What you're watching NOW is hard to watch. At least JVG-led teams ran actual sets and plays. The 2004 team (Sura, Wesley, Howard) gelled moreso than any other Rockets team in the last 10 years (health and youth playing a role in that too).

 

Agreed.

If people haven't heard, you should all take a listen to Woj's podcast The Vertical. JVG was on it about a month ago and spoke about how he would hire great assistants to help his offense, and many more things he would do differently and what he has learned from his previous experiences. The guy has shown willingness to adapt and change what didn't work before.

Here is the link for those interested: https://art19.com/shows/vertical/episodes/6e5d64e9-0692-426c-b6fe-929610d21878

 

That 2004-05 team was a beauty to watch once they made those trades for James and Barry and Sura was fully integrated into the starting lineup. But injuries and free agency quickly undermined that.

There simply wasn't much talent though on that 2006-07 team. T-Mac was on the decline after a series of injuries(still a great player, but not as good as in 2005). Yao missed a couple months due to that collision with Tim Thomas. As much as I love Chuck Hayes, he wasn't a starting caliber PF. And their entire bench was Deke, Juwan, and Luther Head.

Now imagine if Van Gundy had lasted one more season and was given Scola, Landry, Brooks, Bobby Jackson, and even Mike Harris to work with. There's a reason that despite Yao's injury, the Rockets won another 10 straight games to up the streak to 22. That 2007-08 roster was loaded. It's a damn shame injuries basically killed their chances to do anything in the postseason.

BTW, I think Adelman was a smart hire and did a great job that year. I'm just saying Van Gundy would've also been successful with that roster.

 

THANK YOU!

Why does everyone assume that JVG is going to be the exact same coach he was 9 years ago... don't even think about how much the league has changed in last 9 years, think about how much THE WHOLE WORLD has changed in the last 9 years!

For most of us, our favorite thing about Jeff (besides Thibs "D") was that he was an intelligent and thoughtful coach that got a lot out of his players. Why would we assume a person like that is incapable of evolving?

 

A couple of points that seem to be getting lost.

First, the idea that the Rockets defense under Van Gundy was entirely because of Thibs doesn't hold water. The Rockets were a top 5 defense the first year Van Gundy coached the Rockets, before Thibs left NY to join Jeff in Houston.

Second, there is no real way to know what type of offense Van Gundy will run. He last coached ten years ago, in an entirely different era where having a dominant post player and isolation plays were still the norm. The rules have changed, the league has changed and the players have changed. Greg Popovich for example coaches very differently than a decade ago. Stan Van Gundy has changed his philosophy and sets numerous times.

Third, this idea that Jeff Van Gundy will not be able to communicate with millenials, I find a bit bizarre. People forget that Jeff is only 54 years old. Steve Kerr is only 3 years younger. Also, people change a lot over a decade. Jeff is certainly a different person than when he first came to Houston as a 40 year old coach. He is more secure now, and has admitted a number of times over the last decade that he would manage relationships differently and didn't see the big picture.

Fourth, Jeff Van Gundy is extremely well connected in the NBA coaching fraternity, which means that he will bring in an excellent staff. Further, it became painfully clear over the last year that the Rockets lacked a basketball specific, culture within the organization. Jeff brings that in spades.

Fifth, the relationship between the head coach/coaching staff and the front office is of extreme importance. It is why Adelman isn't involved with the Rockets, and why Van Gundy was let go the first time (poor communications with the owner). Kevin McHale had good communication with the front office, but did not have the coaching intellect that Adelman and Van Gundy had. Having a GM and HC dynamic where they are able to communicate AND have mutual respect for their basketball intellect is huge. McHale wouldn't put his foot down, Van Gundy will.

Sixth, who else do you reasonably expect to be available and better? It reminds me of when Rick Pitino said "Larry Bird and Robert Parrish aren't walking through that door."

Seventh, I will be pleasantly surprised if Les Alexander can bury the past and wants to bring Van Gundy back. Jeff has said numerous complimentary things about Les publicly and said he mishandled the situation. Les can just be stubborn.

 

It could encourage him, if that is even the case, but is he capable of doing what the Spurs and Warriors have done on offense and defense on the court?

I think what those teams do offense and defense involves more than just X's and O's, it involves instilling a mentality, and psychologically being able to get through to your players, an ability which Jeff Van Gundy probably is incapable of at the moment.

Like a post post might have alluded to before, the problem seems to be humanistic, spiritual and mental for the Rockets. Helping guide, and get through to your players so they can evolve on their own through their own personal experiences and efforts, on and off the court, is key to a consistently successful coach and franchise.

 

Why can't we just sign a offensesive assistant coach to control the offense while JVG controls the defense?

 

Another point will be how much roster overhaul would JVG want? He would be coming in to a pretty good situation as far as having a star player and plenty of cap space. So basically what I'm asking is what plan would he have going forward to fix this team? What players would he want to keep or get rid of and what players would he like to add?

 

This. JVG is a smart man. Im sure he's put some thought into how he can improve his coaching game.

 

Curious what you base this on? Van Gundy has never had an issue getting players to play hard or be loyal to him.

That is what would happen. Ideally Alvin Gentry would lose his job with the Pelicans and come in as head offensive coach.

That is the million dollar question. I can tell you that he will not tolerate dumb players or those that do not play/practice hard.

 

Players Van Gundy wanted during the Rockets Era.... Major head scratchers

Charlie Ward
Tyrone Lue
Clarence Whetherspoon
Scott Padgent
Rafer Alston......miss the tear drop..., could not finish a lay up slow defender
Gave Juwan Howard playing time, buy preached defense????
Found Chuck Hayes...good move
Shane Battier or Rudy Gay debate