Oh, don't get it twisted, I'll vote for her over Trump, but the only justification for voting for her is that you are really voting against someone else. Her only experience proved that she was either far too incompetent or far too corrupt to trust with pretty much anything. There's just nothing to like about Hillary other than she isn't Trump.
Really doesn't matter who will be the president, sheep from both parties have no choice but being a sheep and they are no match for big companies and lobbyists, at least not on federal level. Once a while masters from both parties need throw some bones, mostly social issues like LGBT, guns, etc, to the sheep, just to keep them excited and engaged and remind the sheep they need their masters in the house. Once the goal is achieved, the tactics works every time BTW, the masters then spend rest of the time do the real raping and robbing. You can choose politicians all you want, but the reality is the new guys work for the same masters.
I am not voting for Hillary, even if Ted Cruz is running against her. In fact, the Democrats have turned me off so badly that I won't even vote if it's Cruz vs. Hillary. None of the Democrats down the ballot will get my support if the Dems nominate Hillary. None of them.
I don't think that follows. If you're presented a Sophie's Choice and refuse to participate, you have no right to complain? If I said, 'You choose, I will either sleep with your wife or burn down your house,' and you told me to **** off, you can't complain when I burn down your house?
Seriously? Who of any consequence "dismisses" her as a "former first lady" or "just a woman"? Who "dismisses" her at all? Everyone takes her very seriously. Among detractors, her track record is why they don't like her. If she were a man, the huge negatives would still be there. Gender has very little to do with it. However, among some of Hillary's supporters, I think her gender matters quite a bit. They want her to be the first woman president.
I don't believe that this election is as extreme as what you posted Juan. I understand what you mean though, about "gun-to-head, make-a-choice-or-else"...but I am not completely turned off if Hillary gets the Dem. nomination to the point of not voting at all. I would be tempted to abstain, however, if all the candidates (from all parties) were all as completely looney or batschit crazy like the current GOP candidates. Even if I decided to abstain from voting, I honestly wouldn't complain (as weird as I know that will sound), because I knew all the risks prior to making that conscious decision to stay away from the polls, feeling like it would be a lose-lose scenario regardless of who actually wins. But because I am just 26, I know that I have not yet personally lived through an election year where no candidate (on either party) is absolutely un-electable.
So if you like a Dem for a city-wide position, a person who has nothing to do with HRC, you would keep from voting for a good person just b/c of your perception of the national party? If so, what does that accomplish, beyond making your city government more ****ty too?
Just think people should check all these emotions at the door. Electing a president is a practical matter, like hiring someone to mow your lawn or paint your house. Do you want to get wildly emotional with that decision, and swear off the entire side of town for one contractor b/c you heard something bad about them? Or do you want to just evaluate their work carefully and make a decision? "I swear, if my wife chooses company X, I'll just, (stammering) well, I'll (spittle flies) ... I'll BURN DOWN THIS HOUSE BEFORE THAT COMPANY IS ALLOWED TO PAINT IT MAUVE WITH TAN TRIM!!!" The media wants everyone to be really upset so they'll watch more talking head gobblety goop, 24/7, but other than that, there's nobody asking us to get all freaked out, other than trolls of course.
I think most people have their mind made up about Hilary and so I'm not going to take much time writing a lot of things out. Much of the criticism of her from the right are just overblown and a good amount is not true and you can not discuss hyperbole and inaccuracies. The definition of "scandal" that has been used to criticize her is ridiculous. I'll state my opinion but any "discussion" is wasted time. No one is changing their opinion. I voted for her in 2008 and I voted for her again in 2016. Just the facts: She has experience in multiple areas of government. She spent 8 years in the senate and 4 years as Secretary of State which is the most important and difficult position in the executive branch other than the President. She won reelection in the senate on a much wider margin which is a testament to how well she served her state. She served on five Senate committees: Committee on Budget, Committee on Armed Services, Committee on Environment and Public Works, Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions, and Special Committee on Aging. She was also a member of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe. Two years into her role as Secretary of State, Osama Bin Laden was killed. People can spin that all they want but it is what it is. Relations also improved with other countries and even more so with Kerry continuing policies. She had the task of turning around the train wreck that was "US Diplomacy" from the previous administration. She was also pretty involved in Bill Clintons administration who (despite his blowjob) finished with an approval rating was %65 when he left office which is very high for the end of an administration and a budget surplus. She had an office in the west wing and was involved (hard to know to what extent) in this administration. There is value in just being a fly on the wall but she had some level of involvement. I'm sure there is info online about how much. Again, tried to keep this to facts that are a part of why I like her and to show the level of understanding of Government that I feel are important. I'm not going to go on and explain how I feel like she will be as president or what she will do. That is a waste. So take this for what it's worth.
Since we're going into hypotheticals, how about saying if I vote for candidate A they will nominate SCJ's who think corporations are people and that section 5 of the Voting Rights Act no longer applies or if I vote for candidate B they will nominate SCJ's who will uphold Roe v Wade and ACA. No matter what logic you want use for voting or for NOT voting, both have huge consequences beyond I don't like the candidate, the system is rigged, it only favors those with money or nothing ever changes. Things aren't going to change if you do NOT vote because you're waiting for the "right" candidate. That's not how it works.
I do not think I would be embarrassed by a Clinton presidency, other than Bernie that's the most I can ask.
Hey, I voted for that Bernie fellow in the primary! Only afterwards did I realize that he simply isn't a Democrat, something that is important to me, being a Democrat for a few decades now. I thought he had "converted" and had morphed from an independent into an actual Democrat, but when Senator Sanders stabbed the President in the back over his pick for the vacancy on the Supreme Court, and this after the Republican leadership had declared it wouldn't even hold hearings on the guy, with the President needing all the support he could get, what did Sanders do? To paraphrase, "When I win the election, I'm asking the President to withdraw his pick." A lightbulb went off. That showed me two things. He really isn't a Democrat, and he lacks class. Class or judgement. Take your pick. Yeah, you could now describe me as a Hillary Clinton supporter, and proud of it. And pippendagimp, I won't hold it against you. ;-)-
I plan on voting for Bernie in the NY primary. But I really don't like his tax plan and am counting on a Republican congress stonewalling him for 8 years. Basically, that's my objective - endless gridlock.
Everyone has the right to complain because they have asymmetric information regarding a candidate's intent, the intent of the candidate's colleagues in their branch, the intent of the candidate's counterparties in other branches of government, and the candidate's own ability to influence and compel those other individuals and entities to legislate and govern in accordance with their original promises to their constituents. They also have the leverage to complain collectively because they can practically decide to vote against the candidate next time, theoretically refuse to pay taxes to support the candidate's salary and policies, or hypothetically have a general strike, upend government and imprison or execute purportedly corrupt administrators.
Here is what you need to know about Hillary (and Bill for that matter). She is a politician first and a Democrat second. She has no problem compromising and working with people that disagree with her. She is not an ideologue like Obama, Sanders, Cruz, or even Trump. She will work with a Republican congress and bring as many people as she can to the middle. Bill did it when he was President. As soon as the Dems lost congress while he was in office, he switched tactics and worked to the middle to get things done. The Clintons understand how politics is supposed to work, for better or worse, and in my opinion they probably hate these far left and far right shifts as much as anyone. I am a Republican that will most likely vote for Hillary as a least terrible option out of all the runners. My wife and I earn too much money to get nailed by any Sanders tax reform. Even if he's stonewalled by Congress...Congress can shift parties. Too much of a personal financial risk. The "free" services we'd get back would be nothing to the income we'd pay in. Trump is a loon pandering to the worst fears in the States...fears that are both rational and irrational. Cruz just seems like a strange milk toast version of a Conservative. All adds up to the fact that the best people to be President don't run for President any more.
So, to take the painter example, say your house is in dire need of a paint job, but you're only allowed to use 1 of 2 contractors. The first will charge you way too much, will paint it a ****ty brown color, and will overbrush onto the window panes. The second will also charge you too much, paint the house a puke green, and will spill paint on the driveway. Now carefully evaluate your options and pick one.
