Bernie is a tough one to vote for but I would vote for him over trump knowing we would have a republican house. Any other scenario and no way, his tax plan would kill me. But to say he is violent and all the other stuff is just ridiculous. He's a rational man. He is not as brutal and uncaring as Trump - who is a dangerous dangerous man.
Vox chart is misleading, very propaganda-like. That is your tax liability, NOT what you would directly pay. Almost all of that is paid by employers themselves.
Arguing about Bernie Sanders' tax plan is like arguing about how Mexico is going to pay for the Trump wall - none of them are very likely to happen, albeit for very different reasons, but is it really worth getting riled up about the consequences of a fantasy universe way different from this one? Some of his policy proposals are valid and worthy of further study, if only to socialize them rather than to marginalize them, but the rest of it is kind of not worth arguing about, like what "your share" would be. It will be nothing, what it would be is in the eye of the beholder really.
1) The chances of going through life without a major medical event happening to you (or your family/dependents) are almost zero. 2) Lifetime earning potential without a degree is drastically less So yeah, if you manage to win the lottery in life and not encounter any significant medical episodes AND choose to forgo increasing your earning potential through advanced education/training, you will be seeing less benefit from the Sanders plan. Undoubtedly still a lot better off than giving back that 9% in taxes and taking it up the rear with more trickledown, supply-side, deregulation nonsense.
If we could just take what we are paying for medical expenses currently and put it all into a single payer system, we would have the best system without any additional tax.
Employers are believed to pass those taxes onto the employee through lower wages, and for people like me, who are self-employed, it really sucks.
Bernie's camp need to come and specifically explain his tax plan. A 2.2% increase in taxes does not appear terribly bad vs. the crazy tax liability increases by some 3rd parties sites. Under the Vox calculator, my taxes would increase by $17,000, a deal breaker for me.
The Vox calculator says my taxes would go up by about $10K but it doesn't break down how much of that would be paid by me vs my employer.
Exactly, it is confusing and terrifying if you believe you are already paying your fair share of taxes. Look, I don't mind paying a bit more if it helps some CF brothers that are now having a hard time with their health insurance premiums, but an exorbitant increase in taxes is just crazy. My suspicion is that the Vox calculator is misleading the actual numbers, but I cannot vote for him in the general election without further assurances.
this world. but if you want, you can lower it to about 30K (sanders plan would have you paying 4K more a year) or even 10K (1K more a year). Whether you have kids or are single, has no baring on if your income is low or not. I personally would call 50K low, but a single person can live off low income.
Mostly your employer. The question is, what is your employer going to do to offset those costs? If they pay that much in health insurance costs right now, then they probably won't do anything.
That's a load of crap. Ludicrous' point is well taken. I was mentally adjusting that number to mean "household", which would imply dependents or a spouse. But a single person making 50K is well above the US average of $26,695. Median household income is about 50K.
fine but that is not what vox is saying on their app. they are intentionally misleading or at the very least not being up front about what they are showing. the app appears to show, intentionally, that the money will come directly out of your check on the FIT deduction line. very misleading.
Exactly. ^ Sanders seems like a decent dude (although he's becoming more pointed and barbed in his "Clinton is a Wall Street troll" speeches), but most of what he proposes is as pie-in-the-sky as that Trump wall. Yes, Bernie isn't the canker sore of a human being that Trump is, but I'm reminded of the recent Larry David impersonation of Sanders on SNL (the one that got less play than the same episode making fun of Hillary for cribbing some of Bernie's talking points): "I have all types of white supporters, of all ages.......18 year-olds, 19 year-olds. And we have so much in common. We all have big dreams. And absolutely no idea how to accomplish them." When I saw Sanders a couple weeks back on CNN giving an interview (along with the other four remaining candidates), I thought, "This guy has no more business being President than Donald Trump." I've heard the same far-left rhetoric about "revolutions" and "insurgent candidacy" from Latin American leftist leaders. No wonder he doesn't care what we think when he says some good things about Cuba ("Cu-ber"). "But....he HAS a PLAN!" someone will screech, shaking their head at my thick cynicism. Yes, talk about the plan about how he's going to arrive in Washington as President in the U.S.S. Enterprise 1701 (maybe take down Trump Tower with the photon torpedoes?), leading an army of white young liberals into Washington, pitchfork in one hand and Starbucks cup in the other, and oust those sleazy corrupt super-PAC Wall Street scum congresspersons and usher in a New Age of Reason. Free public education? Hey, great. HOW? Overhaul health care? Hey, great. HOW? Raise the hell out of taxes but involve a bunch of convoluted math that makes it look like we're getting a tax break. You have to be pragmatic about some things. The revolution? It's. Not. Gonna. Happen.
This post reads like you have never heard a single thing Bernie Sanders has said, nor bothered to read up on his plans or positions. Every single thing you just mentioned is completely explained and outlined by the Sanders camp. It's not a question of "how" in terms of policy/mechanics, it's a question of "how" in terms of getting Congress to support anything a Democratic President does (simple answer is at this point you have to flip the entire legislature). If you're going to sit here and go on about someone lacking in the "HOW" department, the only candidate who is basically a no-show in that department is Donald Trump.
The ownership of Vox, are mainly Hillary supporters so the results should be viewed with sufficient caution. Generally Ezra Kline and some of the guys are pretty honest wonks. Of course if your taxes go up 10,000 and you have a family and have student loans or hope your kids can go to college without tens of thousands of loans or you paying tens of thousands, you might find that you actually come out 5000 to 10,000 ahead. This is not complex so if it is not at least noted and their study is just put out there without context it is essentially a pro-Hillary effort or that is the effect. Hey if you have the largely mythical 100% employer paid health insurance with zero co pays and no drug charges etc. and you and all kids received 100% scholarships to college etc. you are better without Bernie's plans.
The backlash to Sanders in the form of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt is pretty remarkable when you consider that all he is essentially proposing is a return to the Democratic Party of the FDR to LBJ era. It's a repudiation of Clintonian triangulation in the same way Reagan was a repudiation of Nixon's embrace of the welfare state and a return to the GOP of Coolidge. The GOP in the 60s and 70s thought Reagan was a radical and that the Republican Party could never go back to the 20s....and by the mid-80s this was mainstream economic gospel. It's neither unprecedented or particularly radical.
It is not so much his messages as much as the messenger that is the issue. Democrats need a young Bill Clinton or JFK type to pick up the message.
