Pakistan suicide blast kills over 60 as Christian families gathered in the park to celebrate Easter

Yes it does, and it is not racism to call out the inconsistencies of a religion that is being utilized to brainwash poor people all over the middle east because it's text is inconsistent, and prone to manipulation.

Sickening - Islam is most assuredly part of the problem.

DD

 

You mean just like you pretended to put me on your ignore list and harping about it so much trying to obviously get my attention? The ultimate definition of a grown man crying for attention is to post multiple time about how he has put someone on ignore! What a loser!

I am sure you will whine about what I posted 10 years ago like you usually do. Talk about obsessive compulsive behavior!!! You're a weird creepy stalker

 

Whenever we get an attack like this, I think, "Man, the thread about this in the bbs is going to be terrible."

 

While not all Muslims are the problem, many of them clearly are. This goes way beyond the jihadists that are actually committing the violence. Muslims who believe:

-people who draw cartoons of Mohammad should be killed
-gays should be killed
-authors who offend Muslims should be killed
-people who leave the religion should be killed
-a child who offends a family's honor should be killed
-women should have their clits cut off
-women should not be educated
-women should obey their husbands at all times
-that Sharia Law should be the law of the planet

are definitely part of the problem and help foster the environment of extremism that allows groups like ISIS to become possible. When you add up the Muslims who believe this stuff, they number in the hundreds of millions. Sitting there and acting like it's bigoted to point out the terrible things in this religion just compounds the problem. There are major problems in the religion. It's not just a problem with so-called radical Islam.

 

Baba Booey - exactly. "Connected tissue", as Bill Maher calls it. It's not just the guys who end up blowing themselves up. They exist because the hundreds of millions exist who hold the beliefs you just listed.

 

Just a reminder, terrorism in a country like Pakistan is far more complex and nuanced than simply saying Islam.

You have problems in that country dating back to the era of the British Raj and a series of short sighted military dictatorships that have culminated in an unstable country today.

For example, its very common to point the finger at the Pashtun minority has some inherently problematic group because the Taliban are mainly a Pashtun nationalist organization but in reality, the Pashtuns historically have been very secular and were more closely allied with the Indian National Congress than the Pakistani Muslim League during the independence movement. The Pashtuns have always been built around tribes but its only recently that we've seen groups like the Taliban that have embraced these extreme conservative brands of Islam. Hell the Awami National Party which is a socialist and secular Pashtun party held a governing majority in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa until 2014.

In fact, Islamic parties generally do terribly in Pakistani elections. They've yet to gain anything beyond a sliver of the electorate in federal elections. Even in local elections they have very limited appeal. The Taliban succeed in Pakistan because government institutions have failed the country and the intelligence community have their own motives and interests that on some level involve enabling the lunatics that carry out these bombings.

But I would encourage everyone to please stop taking the simplistic route of just yelling things about Islam without learning about the country involved. Each Islamic country has its own history that does a lot to explain why the country is where it is. There's a reason why Pakistan had a very divergent history with India and a lot of that actually doesn't have to do with Islam.

Pakistan's failures have as much to do with language (making Urdu the official language was a catastrophic mistake in hindsight) and geographic makeup (having half the country separated by India made little sense when it came to creating social cohesion) as well as the country's founder dying months after the country was created. I think if Mohammed Ali Jinnah lives and leads the country the way he envisioned it, you'd have an entirely different set of historical events.

We owe it to ourselves to learn about these countries before we start blindly making policy prescriptions. We've done that for 40 years in the Islamic world and the results speak for themselves. As a population, we need to commit to learning a little more about these countries and their histories because that ultimately shapes a much more rational response to world events.

 

The thread is the last thing anyone should be concerned about.

And yes Pakastan sucks as a country, what about Belgium, was that not related to Islam?

Islam is a problem - it's very core is corrupt and inconsistent - ignoring that is also a problem.

DD

 

The attacker was a 28 year old "Islam teacher" and specifically targeted Christians, which was also confirmed by the Taliban who claimed responsibility for the attack.

Yes - Islam. Islam. Islam. It's the cause and core motivation for this terrorist attack. Not the British Raj. Not any military dictatorships from whenever.

 

Yeah, who is saying that it is bigoted to point out the above. That is a strawman. There's a big difference between criticizing intolerance and demonizing a religion.

There's a lot of intolerance in the Islamic world. There is significant intolerance in this country towards immigrants and outsiders as well. People who think we should bomb terrorists families, or treat all Muslims like suspects and spy on them in this country. You have people who talk about blowing the Muslim world to oblivion. You have many people who definitely see Muslims lives are less valuable that other lives - and Muslims know it.

So let's just make sure we paint the whole picture accurately.

The question is how are you going to address this? Because right now all that is happening is more people are both sides are becoming convinced that the other side is the enemy.

 

You are talking to people who have no patience to listen. But great post.

 

So what do we know.

The attack happened on Easter

In a park where Christians gathered to celebrate Easter.

The entity taking credit for the attack stated they specifically targeted Christians.

The entity that is taking credit is Islamic and wants a more Fundamentalist Islamic State.

There isn't really much to debate here... Christians were targeted because they are Christians, by Muslims that wants a more Islamic State. They put the explosives by a slide knowing it would kill children.

Just accept it.

 

Bunch of apologists even apologizing for what ISIS is saying...they are targeting Christians in the name of Islam - this is not anyone in this thread saying anything different than what those lunatics are saying themselves.

DD

 

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=10388959&postcount=44

 

This post is exactly what I'm taking about. You choose to view this in a vacuum. Pakistan has a history and that history shapes events today. Just do some justice to the situation and go read a historical narrative on partition and Pakistan.

History is filled with nuance, depth and complexity. And all of that helps shape the events of a country and its people. But its clear that you have your narrative and you're sticking by it. And that's unfortunate. The world needs its brightest to look at events with a thoughtfulness that will allow us to see things beyond the lens of the hyperbolic 30 second soundbites that infect the media today.

On a side note, this is also why we need historians.

 

I watch Bill Maher get crap from liberals on his show every time he brings this stuff up. Bill Maher has to repeat himself 5 times that he's not referring to all Muslims because what he says is always taken out of context by his liberal guests. Look at the Ben Affleck appearance from 1.5 years ago.

What would I do to address this? I have no idea how or if this can be resolved. What I'd like to happen is for some super charismatic, dynamic liberal Muslim to burst on the scene and start the reformation of the religion, but that's a pipe dream right now as liberal and outspoken Muslims outside the West are being targeted and killed.

There's really no good answer that I can see. Jihadists are trying to start a religious war against the West because they think that will drive all Muslims to their cause. Just look at the Easter bombing that specifically targeted Christians. I don't think the strategy will work out too well for the jihadists, though.

We'll just send super negotiator Trump in there to get everything straightened out.

 

I would find it comical to send Trump in to ISIS to negotiate. He might just convince them to let him live.

These extremists are a threat to everyone - most Muslims and the rest of the world. Extremism in all it's forms are a threat to stability.

 

You can't use history to justify blowing up children in a park. It is evil pure and simple and that evil is growing and anyone who doesn't think it is evil is part of the problem.

If you feel at all that there is any part or piece of this that is anything less that sick and disgusting then you are part of the problem. There are no nuances or depth to this it is just the worst of humanity showing itself in the blood of children.

Anyone or any ideology that has this lack of regard for human life needs to be purged.