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would you trade James Harden for Jimmy Butler?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Madclownpacasum, Jan 5, 2016.

  1. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    What? Did ΓΌ not see how he got injured. That has nothing to do with thibs "overuse"
     
  2. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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  3. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

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    Thibs strikes again.
     
  4. neruto

    neruto Member

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    Jimmy Butler in the past 10 games :

    14.6 PPG 4.1 REB 5.9 AST on 38% FG

    This guy is done. Too injury prone and unpolished on offense.
     
  5. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    No thanks to Thibs
     
  6. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    Trayd Jamez Hardun 4 Jimmay Butlur amirite?
     
  7. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title

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    He needs to hit the strip clubs to see if he can catch some of that James Harden swag.
     
  8. colt45nyc

    colt45nyc Rookie

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    How about Harden to LAL for D.Russell and they 1st round pick?

    I'm sure Harden would love going to LA and I think it's a very good time to retool with youth. Add a new coach. I want Thibodeau to build a real team for us. No more hero iso ball.
     
  9. neruto

    neruto Member

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    Harden didn't always used to play 'hero iso ball'. When he was in OKC, he was an EXTREMELY efficient team player (66 TS% when he won the sixth man award, which is just amazing), and some even considered him to be a better PG than Westbrook. Even during his first year in Houston, his usage rate was not that high and had no problem sharing the ball.

    This hero iso stuff all started with Howard going down with injuries, and McHale just completely giving free rein to Harden to do anything on the court. So, I don't think he's naturally a ball hog or anything, just a product of lack of system and talented players on this team. I mean just look at his assist numbers, he's the most unselfish superstar there is not named Lebron.
     
  10. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    the okc reference is so extremely tiresome. he is no where near the same player he was during that time. Whether you like it or not he's an ISO player period. This is regardless of whatever system he's in. It's who he developed into the minute he left OKC, which became an mvp caliber player as of last year.
     
  11. OTMax

    OTMax Member

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    I'll still take Butler, thank you.
     
  12. neruto

    neruto Member

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    Did you even read what I wrote?

    Harden didn't play like this even during his first year in Houston. Just look at this usage rate back then.

    I'm giving you a reasonable explanation as to why he HAS TO play the iso ball so often, given the circumstance we're in. McHale's utter lack of systematic coaching, Howard's injury/decline, coupled with not having enough players that can score on their own are all contributing factors. So, if Harden is not an inherent ball-hog (as his past shows), then it means he can play differently once the situation changes.
     
  13. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    that's because he had Lin as his ball-dominant pg. :grin:
     
  14. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    he actually was still an ISO player in his first year in Houston. It looks like you didn't really notice it because obviously its become more of a problem now as they are struggling this year. You're blaming it on all those factors yet fail to mention one thing. This team is built around JH and everything has been adjusted to his game. People are now complaining about missing this and that yet just last year all those cries were no where to be found.
     
  15. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    And don't confuse iso player as something that is automatically a bad thing. Some people might think that way but the reality is some of the best players in the world are iso players. It's the results at the end of the day that matter regardless of playing style.
     
  16. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

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    He played exactly the same way.

    The only difference was when he would drive and kick, guys like Parsons / Delfino, could actually use the open lanes created to make moves of their own.

    Today, the ball ends up in Ariza or Beverley's hands with an open lane, they take two steps, realize they have no handles whatsoever, then kick it right back to Harden.

    Stylistically, nothing has changed, only the ability of the personnel.
     
  17. neruto

    neruto Member

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    Harden's Usage Rate in Houston

    2012-2013 : 29%
    2013-2014 : 27.8%
    2014-2015 : 31.3%
    2015-2016 : 32.6%

    I wonder what is the difference between 2013-2014 and 2014-2015? Maybe Dwight being out and have several key players injured? And McHale just completely giving up on coaching?

    Are you saying that our coaches have all these wonderful systems in place where we can play like the Spurs, but Harden is just refusing to play within the system because he's just an inherent ball hog?

    If not, what is your point?
     
  18. neruto

    neruto Member

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    I'm not talking about his style. I'm talking about his willingness to share the ball and play within the system.
     
  19. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    wanna know what the difference was? its not rocket science. he got better so his usage rate went up. that makes sense doesn't it.

    every single team in the league has their own system. Whether you want to believe that or not is up to you. Not every team has on their board play like the spurs. that's ridiculous. My point was that he's an ISO player and you're trying to go around that and say otherwise.

    Of course he's willing to share the ball. that's not being questioned. But that also doesn't mean what I've said originally. he's an ISO player.
     
  20. neruto

    neruto Member

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    The original claim was that he's a "hero ISO player" which is completely different, because it implies he plays a hero ball. gosh, at least read properly before you respond.
     

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