You think a player who immediately is thinking to jack up a 3 pointer once he brings the ball past half court is a pass first player? A guy who shoots 20 times and 11 3s in 34 minutes is a pass first player? He's a scoring point guard just like nearly every All Star pg in the NBA this generation not named Chris Paul. Curry's AST% isn't that much better than Iverson who i know you wouldn't call a pass first point guard(ignoring that they listed him as sg most of his career..he had the ball in his hands at all times and ran the offense). You think Curry is a better scorer than Jordan based on a 66 game sample that assumes career projections at an already veteran age of 28 that are better than Jordans 1072 regular season game sample and 179 career playoff game sample? That's like assuming T-Mac was going to be GOAT after at just 23 years old, he averaged 32 and had a 30.3 PER or that AD is going to be better than Olajuwon based on last season.
If Curry continues at this level for a few more years, he will be considered top 5-10 before he is done. He has almost broken the game of basketball and they will have to change to rules to account for him. The only way to stop him is to allow hand checking again, so defenders can muscle as soon as he touches the ball.
I'm pretty sure I said "team-first". There's a difference. AST% is a poor measure of Curry's impact. Because he's such a perimeter threat, the defense always tilts in his direction. Do you think Draymond Green would have the same level of success if Curry were replaced with anyone else in the league? The key difference is that Curry is doing it while winning MVP's and championships while McGrady and Davis were limping into the playoffs. Do you think any of Jordan's regular season performances are better than the season Curry is having right now? If so, which one?
So...what are you implying? Jordan wasn't a team first player? I think all of Jordans best individual seasons are better than Currys. You throw away AST% but i'm 100% certain you want to use PER to say Curry is GOAT. PER is flawed and not the only metric to show ones greatness. People forget that stat was created by John freaking Hollinger...who was a writer for college, ESPN, SI before working for the Grizzlies. " PER has been criticized for lacking any consideration of shot defense and for overvaluing shot-taking." It's a nice metric and usually paints a decent picture at the best players, but it also isn't the only way to show one is better than another. Otherwise there are 78 better seasons than Hakeem Olajuwon's best season and. Curry's a 3 pt scorer with deep ability. Amazing efficiency in which i believe will ultimately be an anomaly season which is a better assumption than to think he is going to do this or better for 5-10 more years. I predict he will fall back to earth next season, possibly even in the playoffs. I might be wrong, but you can quote me on that. He's on his way to having the highest PER season ever(though Wilt didn't get to add blocks and steals and many other legends didnt have the 3, but Wilt would be unreachable if he had all stats count that count today). That is amazing. Truly. Last year he had the 60th best PER in NBA/ABA history. He's 28. You project him to be better than a 10x scoring champion(7 straight) with 4 of the top 10 highest PER seasons, 7 of the top 30. And an extra 4 more of the top 175. Majority of that damage done by 29 years old. Remember. Curry is already 28 years old. You can't be the greatest scorer ever if you have one threat as a go to in order to score unless you are a big man that just dominates in the post. If that shot isn't falling, he can't dominate you in any other scoring ways like the other GOAT perimeter scorers. That's why he's the best shooter ever and to say he is the best scorer ever is ridiculous. Take away MJ's jumper, he'll still attack at will or beat you in the post. Same goes for other great scorers like a Kobe or even a LeBron. Without the 3 falling, Curry turns into an above average pass first point guard.
This. I could be wrong, but I believe Curry leads the league in 'hockey assists', which are a direct result of double teams due to his shooting prowess.
He eventually became one, but he was a me-first player in his earlier years. Why? If you're going to cite raw stats, you have to address Curry's limited minutes, his team-first mentality, and the fact that he's proven that increased volume doesn't lower his efficiency. If that's all he is, then opposing defenses would easily neutralize him. And how often does Curry have off nights? His consistency is a big reason why he's the greatest scorer ever.
That kind of stat tracking is new. No way of knowing if someone like Iverson or Kobe who are shoot first guards weren't just as good at the hockey assist. They probably were. Maybe not Iverson since he never really had another playmaker, but Kobe had Odom and Gasol who would be great in part of the hockey assist. Just like im sure MJ would be routinely tops in the league in that stat with Pippen next to him. Curry is surrounded by a 3pt shooter who can be just as good, if not better on some nights in Klay Thompson-41.3% Harison Barnes 37.3%. Draymond Green who is damn near averaging a triple double-38%. Iggy 35% and a bunch of other role players who can hit the 3 at a high clip. Give any of the top scorers in history guys that can consistently hit their 3 at that %, and they'd lead the leauge in hockey assists just the same.
It's pretty clear that you don't understand the impact Curry has on opposing defenses. There's a reason why his teammates tend to find themselves wide open, and its not something any other top scorer in NBA history can replicate.
No. He wasn't a me first stat padder. Man. Are you the same dude that argued with me back on forth on this and you tried to provide proof of him fighting etc to prove that he was a bad teammate, yet every incident happened during the championship years. You never found anything proving he was a me first player. Just a bunch of hack revisionist writers with an agenda. His limited minutes? He plays 34 mpg. That's not limited minutes. He already proved what he could do with 38mpg for a season. 22.9ppg. A 66 game sample isn't proof that he can increase volume and efficiency. It's one great peakseason. Not a career. Let's see him do near his current level for even 2 more seasons. He won't. Teams will eventually figure him out just like Kobe, LeBron, Iverson, Melo, T-Mac+ whoever you want to name were figured out and slowed down from their highest peak scoring seasons. This is most likely a 1 season anomaly, but pf course the future is yet to come, still you make it seem like Curry has been playing at this level for his entire career and project him to be at this level for the rest of his career. That's just not the case. No. He's surrounded by elite shooters while being an elite shooter himself. You honestly think Stephan Curry, the player who was scouted as too small and too slow is going to be blowing by players and beating double and triple teams with the Rockets roster minus Harden for his teammates? Good luck to Curry when defenders know everyone out in he perimeter shoots 20% from 3 lol. 66 games man. 66 games?!?!? Are you trolling? I'm done. This really feels like a troll job.
It's pretty clear you think Curry has played basketball for 2 seasons and those are the only samples you use to judge him and completely ignore his other seasons totaling 336 games when his overall team was subpar and he was just an elite shooter with flashy handles, but now that he's surrounded by elite players, he's GOAT. Goodnight dude. There's no talking to you. I've been through this with Kobe fans, then LeBron fans, and now Curry fans. They all fade away.
You've cited Jordan's 37 ppg season a few times. Go look at his total FGA relative to the entire Bulls' team. Look at his FTA relative to the entire Bulls' team. Now compare that with Curry's FGA/FTA relative to this year's Warriors team. Absolutely wrong. You're trying to apply last year's volume and efficiency to this year. Sorry, but statistical analysis doesn't work that way. And yes, 34 mpg is limited minutes when you know he can play 38. Actually, it is. In terms of sample size, 66 games is huge. That's almost an entire season. The NBA has never seen a player like Curry. All those players you listed had the same weakness....perimeter shooting. Defenses could pack the paint and force them to jumpers. That's won't work against Curry. How can you stop a guy who can shoot a decent percentage 30 feet away? If you give him space, he'll shoot. And if you play him tightly, he can go around you. The defense's only option is for the primary defender to guard Curry tightly and have secondary defenders hedging off their assignments and providing secondary support. That's what leads to wide open shots for Thompson, Barnes, Green Iguodala, whoever. Look at his shooting percentages for his entire career. He shot 44% from the 3 pt line as a rookie. The only question is whether or not increased volume would reduce his efficiency (which is typical). This season, Curry proved it wouldn't. Who cares what scouting reports said? How is that relevant? Obviously, they were wrong. Why are you trying to use definitively incorrect data to support your opinion? And yes, I think the Rockets would be a better team with Curry instead of Harden. In a half-court offense, when Barnes/Iguodala/Green shoot 3's, they're wide open. When Terry/Ariza/Brewer shoot 3's, there's usually a defender closing out on them. That makes a big difference. No kidding.
No, I simply recognize that the Monta years shouldn't be used to judge the player that Curry is now. I thought that would be common sense. Guess not. Sure...fade away. I've probably been watching basketball longer than you've been alive.
Wow wekko368 and Caesar you both are really taking to extreme positions. Curry is not the GOAT and he is also a lot more than just a system player on a great team. This year he is amazing. Offensively one of the great seasons by any player. Curry really is a great player who deserves the MVP he will get this year (I still think Harden deserved it last year). But he needs to be having these type of seasons a lot more years to be in the discussion of GOAT (or even being top 20 of all time). Will he be able to do that? I do not know, he is already 28, so he is not young anymore. But on the other hand his skill will probably age well
Haha...completely disregard what Jordan did pre Pippen and Grant rise with garbage teams and say he was selfish and then say Curry pre last year doesn't count for his career because he played with Monta Ellis. Common sense right? Poor Gene Banks,Dave Corzine, Brad Sellers, Elstron Turner and Mike Brown. They had to endure such selfish basketball from MJ and his 29.8 PER and 16.9 Win shares that season.
Actually, you cited Jordan's 37ppg season several times. I was simply pointing out that during that season, he took almost 32% of the Bulls' total FGA and 43% of their total FTA. Regardless of who his teammates were, that's me-first basketball, and that simply isn't Curry's mentality. Even during McGrady's 2003 season when he averaged 32 ppg, he took 27% of the total FGA and 35% of the total FTA. As great as he's playing right now, Curry has only taken 22% of the Warriors' FGA and FTA. Also, the Monta years are irrelevant b/c Curry didn't lead those teams. In 2011, Monta averaged 20.1 FGA. Curry averaged 14.2. Dorell Wright averaged 14. David Lee averaged 13.4. I get why you want to include those years. You don't have anything that supports your opinion and you're now grasping at straws. In the context of GOAT comparisons, are Jordan's Wizards years brought up? What about Olajuwon's Toronto year? Magic's 2nd stint with the Lakers? Kobe's current year?
Are you really writing this assuming the answer is "obviously Curry"? I can't figure out, because your arguments seem to point to that being your answer. But I can't imagine anyone would have that position on the question you posed.
Yep, to me, the answer is obviously Curry. Jordan's greatest weakness was his perimeter shooting. Defensively, a team of Payton/Bowen/Pippen/Rodman/Olajuwon could force Jordan to rely primarily on his perimeter shooting. What weaknesses does Curry have that an elite defense could exploit?
Those of us who were around during the height of the Kobe / Tmac debates, when they were almost equal, can see the comparison. Kobe took his to another level, and left Tmac in the dust. Curry did the same with Harden. Not really on the same level anymore, and not even close. Curry is in the discussion of potentially being an Top 10 all-time great if he keeps this up for a few more years. Harden can't even be brought up in the discussion of all-time greats.
