It's not that I don't like Hoyer so much as I do like the Texans. You can't like the Texans and like Hoyer....unless you think that tanking is what is best for the team.
And for the record... I don't think any of those three should be in consideration. Johnson? Yes. Foster? Yes. Watt? Yes. Brown? Maybe. As of right now, that would be my list.
I'm not going to compare the receiving corp of both teams but it was obvious they wanted to move on from him and his contract. They should have just said that and cut him. Even if it was true that he was only going to have 40 catches, they knew the reaction he would have. The Colts didn't tell Peyton that he would have to backup Luck, even though it was true. They just cut him. The Bears didn't do that to Forte. Colts didn't do it to Wayne. I could go on. I don't want to re-hash it but there were reports that the team told him the previous year that he was definitely going to be a part of the team's future plans. So they didn't want to straight up cut him a year later, so they did what they knew would make him want to quit. There is no way they were planning to pay a 40 catch guy his salary. Do you really think that? That was never the plan.
Right now, I'm definitely including Cushing. He has been around longer and was the face of the defense for some time.
Exactly. If you're going to do something like that, reserve it for the truly great. For example, the Cowboys have been in the NFL for 55 years and have 21 members of their Ring of Honor. The breakdown is NLF HOF: 14 HOF finalist: 2 No HOF, won NFL MVP: 1 (Don Meredith, also insanely popular with the fans) 2X Super Bowl Champ, 1 Super Bowl MVP: Chuck Howley Super Bowl Champ, NFL All-Decade Team: Drew Pearson
Duh, forgot Don Perkins: retired as NFL's 5th leading rusher as a fullback, won ROY Darren Woodson: 3X Super Bowl Champ, team leader in tackles
Very telling on what kind of bs this franchise is on. Once they cut good ol boys like Cushing and Hoyer I'll know this franchise is serious about winning. Once they sign a good qb that will put them over the top.
That's because some people are plain stupid in this town. No matter how much they see a guy flat out suck and choke in front of them some excuse comes up to keep them. They need to do Hoyer like they just did Foster, like they did Andre last year, like they did Jacoby Jones and Vontae Leach... get this guy outta town he's way worse than anybody I've mentioned.
Yeah, I would just stick with Foster/AJ... but its hard to dedicate that sort of space with just 2 names (and both actually need to be retired to get it done)... then again, you have to start somewhere. Also, I'm not really a proponent of retiring numbers... unless you were truly the best of the best. I still think the Astros had retired too many jerseys over the years (Mike Scott?), but they've since raised their standards a bit (since guys like Oswalt/Berkman won't be getting their jerseys retired, despite having better Astro careers than some of the guys who are already up there).
Oswalt and Berkman should definitely have their numbers retired. They took them to world series. They were the best players during the best era of the franchise.
But that's exactly the standard they used before... Wynn/Ryan/Scott at one point were the best players during the best eras. Obviously Biggio/Bagwell were the best players during what was at that point the best era. And since the Astros have never won a World Series, whoever is the best players on that team (whenever it happens) will be considered the best players during the best era. At some point, you can't simply retire the best players for any given era..... I agree that Oswalt/Berkman have better credentials than some of the other guys, but I'm happy to raise the bar a little too.
5-time all star, top 5 in MVP voting four different times. Won the RBI title in '02. 40+ homers twice (3rd in '02 and 4th in '06), 4th in batting average in '01, etc. He definitely belongs.
Well, we don't know the plan... we have no idea what they told Andre Johnson. We know what Andre Johnson *heard*... but that's it. The Texans have never told their side of the story. What I believe is that they floated 40-catches as a means to eventually - and honestly - discuss with him the viability of taking a pay cut. And one of two things happened: 1) he blew up at the idea of only catching 40 passes and they never had a chance to discuss a pay cut; 2) they asked him to take a pay cut because they envisioned him only catching 40 balls and Johnson, angry at the blow to his ego, heard "only catching 40 balls." At the end of the day, whether based on the evolving offense or the Johnson's declining skills, the Texans were 100% honest - and, most importantly, accurate with Andre Johnson's workload in 2015.
He had a tremendous rookie year and was promptly suspended for PED use. His subsequently best seasons ('11, for sure) were derailed by injury. When healthy, Cushing was very good. But honoring him for his potential over actual results is exactly the kind of decision I hope the Texans side-step with their ring of honor. (ETA: don't want to derail the thread but agree with you on Berkman, btw - borderline, if not HoFer. He's a no brainer, frankly - I think, WADR, Nick is trying to raise the standard for the retired numbers - which I agree with. But neither Berkman nor Oswalt should be punished for the team being overzealous in the past. If the Astros' only retired #s were Dierker, Cruz, maybe Wynn and then Bagwell and Biggio... Berkman and Oswalt would be on there.
I think you have to find a happy medium; a high standard is nice - but you also want to tell the story of the franchise. To me, there are four no-brainers: Dierker, Cruz, Bagwell and Biggio. I would stump for Wynn; I think he's worthy. I know a lot of people would push Ryan... I'm in the minority but... eh. And then Berkman and Oswalt.
