Harden - and how to build a championship team around him

It is simple. The ceiling to harden being the primary ball handler and primary playmaker is not an nba championship. That is why he underperforms in the playoffs and part of the reason why he is such a lackluster defender. If we really want to be a true contender, he has to adapt and go back to using his best skill which is to score effeciently. If you put someone who is not as effective as a playmaker as harden next to him then ofcourse he will take over. Thats what the coaches allude to when then say that he is being asked to do too much. The perfect partner to Harden is not Bradley or Beverly. Its a pass first pg who is a good catch & shoot guy and an alpha personality and a good defender.

 

LOL... only a hater would classify Harden's playoff performances over his career as underperforming.

Bear in mind last year he had a 25 PER, put up 27 ppg, 7.5 apg, 5.7 rpg, 1.6 spg on 62% true shooting with average defense.

But he had a couple of bad games, you say!! Well, yeah, I'm a Harden fan and even I recognize he isn't MJ.

You know who else has had a lot of bad playoff games? Lebron, Kobe, Duncan... basically everybody.

No I don't put Harden in that best of the best ever category. Just one below. So it's not super surprising that he had a bad Finals at the age of 22 against Lebron. Or a bad game here and there last year, etc.

But then again, he was the most important Thunder player in the WCF against the Spurs to get them to the Finals (well second behind Durant, but Harden put up some great 4th quarters that series), and other than that team, he hasn't played on teams anywhere near as stacked as the other greats that had championship runs.

 

Every player is going to struggle in a game or two in the playoffs. Bybyiur thinking it seems you could avg 35 ppg with 10 assists but if you don't win or make the finals it was an underperforming performace.

Harden avg 27/8/6 on 62% ts how is that struggling in the playoffs. I belive he had the highest scoring avg up till the finals of any players and scored over 20 ppg 14/17 games had two 40 point games a triple double and multiple 8+ assist rebound games.

That's not struggling in the playoffs. If you think he can't get it done, fine. But don't say he struggles in the playoffs because I just gave u a 17 game sample.

 

People here are right - we need a second star and Howard is not it. But there is a deeper question and it's all about Harden's DNA and heart.

The conventional thinking is that Harden needs someone to share the offensive load, that he has to do so much on offense that it saps some of his energy for defense. Harden has even asked for help with playmaking on offense.

My question is whether Harden really wants that help. Under the status quo, he gets the ball in his hands, his offensive numbers are high. More importantly, he has a built in excuse if he is inefficient on a given night or if he does not give effort on defense.

I don't know what to make of Harden. His offensive talent is undeniable and he is not selfish in terms of being unwilling to pass. But I don't know if he has the championship gene. I have my worries: he has put up several troublesome showings in key playoff games/moments; he is not pathologically competitive; he has a laid back personality.

Gun to my head - I don't think Harden can be the best player on a championship team. I think he is quite similar to McGrady. But he is still young. Maybe things change.

 

Spent all that time typing only to hit it on the head at the end. Harden is not a first option on a championship team.

 

The only way for the Rockets to win a ring with Harden is if he's not their first and 2nd best player. As good as Harden is he's very overrated he's a perfect 3rd best player for a championship team.

 

It's hard to see the GSW last year not still winning the ring replacing Harden with Curry.

And Harden would still be the #1 option and ballhandler on that team bar none.

The talent comparison after Harden and after Curry is ridiculous. The same can be said when comparing to the Thunder, Spurs, Cavs (when healthy), etc.

The Ty Lawson acquisition was viewed as so critical because while not a top PG, he was a near all-star level PG for multiple years in a row. Not an all-star, but close. A meaningful improvement to that obvious talent gap.

But Lawson has been atrociously bad. TJones has regressed. DMo is non-existant. Dwight isn't a great fit, and while still a really solid center, he HAS regressed. Ariza has regressed a bit. Brewer has regressed completely.

Harden was not amazing to start the season, but has been of late.

I have no problem seeing Harden lead a team to a championship.

But the task ahead of DM (or whomever the GM becomes) is now EXTREMELY hard. Which is part of the reason why the coaching choice is so important. Because if a coach can get the regressed players to turn it around, and the GM can land big piece(s) either via trade, draft or FA, then its possible. Otherwise there is a LOT of wheeling and dealing and a LOT of roster change needed to get this team to be championship potential.

 

Exactly this narrative Harden struggled in the playoffs is mind boggling. He had a few poor games but he was excellent throughout for the most part.

 

nope. JH doesn't provide the same effect on the game curry does especially for that team. statements of replacing one player for another and thinking they can replicate the exact results are ridiculous.

 

As are statements that such and such a player could never lead a team to a championship.

I did not say exact results. I did say still a ring.

Of course JH doesn't provide the same effect. But he still provides an effect, and one which leads to tons of open looks. It's hard for me to imagine Kerr and his coaching staff wouldn't still have enormous success.. including winning a championship last season.

But as with all what-ifs... who knows!?!?!?!

 

so replacing curry with a worse 3 pt shooter, who doesnt play defense, a primary iso player, doesn't move without the ball on that team would still get a ring. Yeah I definitely don't think so.

 

Still defending Ty Lawson bro?

 

nice. glad you had to get your daily ride. thanks for hopping on

 

Yes. Harden is a worse 3 point shooter. He is a similar defender (see Curry eye test and stats before his team got better defensively). He also moves the ball just fine...

Again, different coach, different teammates, different system.

Feel free to think what you want.

 

Surround Harden with 3 point shooters. He get's to the basket, get fouled, or drives and kicks.

 

How can you say that if McGrady never had half the talent Harden has had these past 2 seasons? When we finally had a great team, he was physically done. You could have said the same for Kobe before the Lakers pulled off a very shady deal. He was going to go down as a first round exit for the rest of his career without Shaq with garbage teams like T-Macs.
T-Mac at least could lock anyone down when he wanted to unlike Harden. Only problem was that his teams as a whole were for the most part was garbage. Kobe and LeBron are the same way, very selective defense, yet they have this reputation as lockdown defenders because they've been on championship teams.

Harden may be as good as T-Mac offensively in this system, but he's no where near the consistent defensive level T-Mac could and did(selectively) play. People think the Toronto game was his entire career defensively or something. You don't just need the DWS to see T-Mac was a better defender, the eye test is enough for me. Last year, Harden was very good. Can he give that level effort consistently for the rest of his career? Signs are pointing to no whereas T-mac was having Hardens peak DWS most of his career.

 

But McGrady was nowhere near the level offensively that Harden consistently has shown.

 

Didn't need to be with Yao. Harden isn't going to be putting up these numbers with a go to guy in the post like Yao...actually...hell Harden probably would never even pass it to Yao seeing as how he can't even make a routine post entry pass. T-mac's length and vision was great for helping get Yao the ball in the right spots.

 

Exactly. He had another consistent scoring option alongside him.

We need to get Harden one of those, though easier said than done.

 

You are all mixed up.

Its not about "putting up these numbers", its about efficiency scoring the ball.

And lol at the thought of Harden not being able to make a simple post entry pass. That is just ridiculous.