With direction. Pop would give Kawhi tapes of Jordan and Barkley. Kawhi himself said that when he came into the league that he just wanted to help the team win but now he thinks he can be an all time great player.That it was something he had to grow into.
Yes and? How exactly that limits or downplays the personal improvement of Kawhi as a player? Because his coach gave him some film to watch? Most coaches who develop players give their players film to watch.
I like how people bring up the fact of Mchale saying Harden needs to move off the ball. It's taken out of context why? Because Mchale didn't say this till we lost to the Warriors and Harden complained about being asked to do too much. Let me repeat that Harden is the one who complained first. One on One ISO Ball is not a James Harden construct it is Kevin Mchales system signed and approved by Morey who wanted a big three similar to the Heat. So what you have is a coach who doesn't rely on strategy but the individual greatness of players because Morey did not pride proper coaching. In all his analytics not one stat informed him how important coaching is. The minute we got James Harden and kept Kevin Mchale who should only be a rebuilding coach this team was doomed to fail. It got worse when we got Dwight. The inability to capitalize on having two of the best players in their positions, it's only last year after James Harden spends time with real coaches that he comes into the season playing bonkers. This was wasted because we still relied on him to simply hero ball us for the win game in game out. Then Harden hurts himself twice in the off season and what you are seeing is a team that relied on one guy too much and when they needed to play team ball were unable to do it. Now the result is blame Harden because he can't Michael Jordan us to the win game in game out like he did last year.
I just stopped reading after what looks to be ridiculous ramble after that. That's just plain delusional
Yes because a) when a coach says something publicly it is the FIRST time he has said that. It's not like he has repeatedly said it in the lockeroom and privately. The first time is in an interview. b) when a player complaints and does nothing or the direct opposite himself after that means it's the coach fault. Not his own. Not at all . 100% ONLY the coach. Agreed that having Mchale as a coach in previous years has influenced the development of Harden. Because players develop at the first 4-5 years. Before they establish themselves.
First of all, for Harden to be able to play off the ball you need another creator or ball handler. Which we don't have. You have Lawson but again...he defers. So I really don't know what you have been watching with this team? Don't bring up Lawson again, he had his shot and doesn't want to do it for this team. Ummm...you did read the quote right? This is what I've been saying this entire time lol.. Also it's actually very true. Apparently Pop thinks he needs to talk more ON THE COURT and that's one of his flaws. Pop realizes this though.
Not at all. It was the very same system with Lowry and Dragic. The Fire McHale thread was started during the Lowry years lol because some of us realized how ugly this team played basketball from the start under him. People want Harden to defer to guys who can't create their own shots OR to guys who just will defer right back. I really don't get it.
Just because Pop isn't completely satisfied because he has let's say extreme expectations doesnt' mean that Kawhi doesn't talk. IN DEFENCE. It's plain IMPOSSIBLE for someone to be a part of a historical level defence as its centerpiece and best defender in the whole league and not talk. If he didn't talk in defence he simply wouldn't be a good defender. Simple as that. You could say Lawson failed. I am with you on that one. It's also Lawson's fault primarily. I am not the one to take the blame off lawson and blame all the others. It's his responsibillity as well. However you said he had his shot? So you saw Harden play off the ball this season? By playing off the ball I mean move without the ball? You saw? Please tell me which games so I can download them and rewatch again. Because Lawson plays like crap doesnt' take away from Harden NOT being able or not want or whatever to even play off the ball for some time in the games. Oh btw I forgot. About Thibs. He can't make everyone a good defender. Snell who has been developing under Thibs isn't. Rose isn't. Brooks certainly is not. Mcdermott and Mirotic and Pau aren't.
JH established himself as an ISO player when he came here by choice. That's just who he developed into as a player. Whether people want to still hold onto what he has done in the past does not hold true to the player he is today. If you're expecting some kind of change in that you'll be waiting for a very long time especially if you believe a coach is going to drastically have an affect on this. But as we all know, something to going to happen in the near future so well find out soon enough.
No, that's just wrong. You can be a great defender and not communicate much. I'm talking about the actual skill of playing defense. Again, Pop quote meant on the court. So yes, he meant on defense too. I'm not sure why you keep pointing that out. Defense is on the court, Pop thinks Kawhi should talk more on the court...that quote was in december. Was Kawhi a worse defender then before this season? Pop says it's better now so I can't imagine what it was like when he first got on the team. Yes, he had his shot. They took Harden out of the game and tried to give Lawson minutes without Harden. Dude would do the same stuff he does when Harden is in the game. Probably because the Rockets don't run an offense with a purpose so he probably brings the ball up the court and wonders what the hell he's supposed to do next. Also yes Harden does actually move off the ball, not that it amounts to anything because he's our only creator and those other guys outside of Lawson aren't good passers. Usually Harden moves off the ball only to create for someone else because again, we don't have many creators. Which doesn't matter because in the end the team always plays good defense. You named all those players and yet they were still a good defensive team under Thibs. Why is that?
No you can't. You can't be a great man to man defender AND positional and help defender without communicating. There's no way and if you insist on that give me one single example of someone who was DPOY caliber and great help defender and didn't talk in defence. Talk in the court isn't only in the defence. Players talk also in offence. Taking Harden out of the game? So you admit that because of Harden's inabillity to play off the ball he had to be taken out completely to give Lawson his shot. Good.
sorry for the double post forgot to reply to this and can't edit. His team last year wasn't top 3 defensively. And the reason they were above average in defence were two players mainly and because Snell didn't play much but the vet Scumleavy (who wasn't developed by Thibs) did in his place. But for Thibs developing a player it's not a certain thing. He couldn't get Snell McDermott Mirotic to learn defence and he couldn't teach Rose to be an elite defender or hide Pau. He did develop in defence Butler and Deng and Noah. If the player is a horrible defender or doesn't get it then Thibs isn't a magician. I just gave you multiple examples.
Look, I don't know what else to tell you. You tell me he does all this talking and the Spurs players and the coach says he doesn't. Where is your proof to what you claim? I've provided mines. Pop says ON THE COURT. That includes Offense yes...and guess what? It includes defense. I really don't know how to break it down more than that. Do they play defense off the court? As to your other point no. Harden has tried to defer to Lawson, he just defers back. They then tried to have him come off the bench to play in minutes without Harden, nothing changed. Who said this is about playing elite defense? This is about playing defense at all. The Rockets don't. Period. If they played average defense they'd be a ton better then they are now. They are a GARBAGE defensive team...get this...despite having actual defenders lol. Dwight, Beverly, and Ariza...yet the defense sucks. Explain that. Oh let me guess. Harden. Harden is the reason that every other plays bad I guess.
Pop didn't say he DOES NOT TALK. He said he doesnt' talk as much as Pop -a very demanding coach and perfectionist who says things publicly to push his players and has extreme expectations -would want him to. That's two completely opposite things. a) the player talks in defence doesn't talk much in offence and that's why he is a dpoy but Pop wants even more b) the player doesnt' talk at all in defence he misses switches he is horrible in rotations and help defence and basically Pop doesn't even play him because having an elite defence with the player who gets the most minutes not even talking is impossible and pop would never allow it. You took a quote by Pop who said he is not satisfied and turned it into Kawhi not talking at all IN DEFENCE! Please. Again..the proof lies before your eyes => Kawhi being an exceptional help defender! and just give me ONE example of someone who was DPOY and didn't open his godamn mouth in defence. ONE example. You can't because it's impossible. It doesnt' exist. I'm sorry but your insistence to claim that this is possible and proof of Kawhi not talking in defence is indicative of your lack of knowledge or misunderstanding on how nba defences work. No not at all. It's not only Harden's fault and Thibs would make the team a better defensive team. But this is completely different than claiming that just hiring Thibs will automatically magically turn Harden into a good or even average defender who is consistent for the whole season.
Again, read the quote. He said it actually is a negative for the team. AGAIN. Where is your proof that he's this vocal leader? I didn't say he never talks, but you make it seem like he's Garnett. He's not. He's not the defensive leader of that team either, he's the best defender on the team. In fact West is noted by his teammates as one of the vocal leaders of defense. In fact, the numbers would say that they miss Duncan on defense. I'm sorry but your insistence that Kawhi Leonard would make Ty Lawson a better defender is indicative of your misunderstanding of how NBA defenses work. Using that Logic then Dwight Howard a 3x DPOY BTW...would then make Harden a better defender right? He'd make the team a better defensive team right? He talks right? Right? Explain that to me using your logic that one elite defender is going to make the team play better defense. Explain to me how a 3x DPOY hasn't had this effect on the Rockets... Thibs would make the team play better defense. That's all that matters. Team defense is ALL that matters. There is no such thing as a great defender shining on a bad defensive team. No such thing.
Nice strawman again. Being the vocal leader is different than not talking in defence. You claimed in previous posts that he doesnt' talk. Wrong. Being the vocal leader is much more than talking. Where did I say that he is Garnett? LOL Hyperbole after hyperbole..for what? To say that Kawhi isn't a good defender and is only DPOY because of Duncan and the Spurs system?:grin: No. If you can't understand how Dwight is called to cover for the UNENDING perimeter penetration and how if he wasn't that good in positional defence our defence would be much worse or how having an elite man to man and help defender who is also versatile like Kawhi in the wings next ot Lawson would help with teh penetration and coverages I can't explain much more to you. You simple dont' understand defence. And no. That's not what matters. This is a thread about Kawhi and Harden INDIVIDUALLY. It's not a thread about the Rockets and Spurs team defence. Individually Harden is attrocious in defence and whether you refuse to aknowledge it or burry your head in the sand his lack of effort and being completely lost makes things much worse and requires specific players next to him.
Those are strawmen too, you realize that right? Who said he's only DPOY because of Duncan? The Spurs system yes, definitely. Name someone that wins a defensive award on bad defensive team. The fact is this. If Kawhi was on this team in place of Harden he would not be the defensive leader. He doesn't talk. The idea that just talking makes him an elite defender is silly, quite frankly. It's an actual skill set. I'm saying he's an elite defender without talking much, I'm not sure what you are imagining that I'm saying. What makes him an elite defender is his reactions, his IQ, his preparedness, and his athleticism. It doesn't hurt that he has a great wingspan to go along with that. You do realize that we start Ariza and Beverly alongside Harden right? Our defense would be much worse? Well ____, how much worse can it get then it is now lol? I'm sorry, but you are not getting it. The teams defensive scheme is to switch and switch often. As such, lets look at how the Rockets ACTUALLY do play defense. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZFCDKBl8Skw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> -First play, what are Beverly and Dwight even doing? They have committed to nothing. Either way, Dame passes it between them and now Howard is out of the paint unable to defend it. Harden at least is in good position here, Brewer has to rotate over because otherwise there is a big attacking the lane with no other big to stop him from doing so. - Second play...well look at that! Beverly (NOT HARDEN) gets beat so quick Ariza has to rotate over to protect the paint. Beverly gives up his man to the paint so then why isn't he going to cover a shooter? I mean this is just one video. Kawhi isn't turning anyone into better defenders then they are. Just like Harden isn't turning Ariza into a better ball handler. Those dudes are failing on their own and a large part of that is because the defense has no plans or purpose. Yes, it matters. It always matters when talking about defense. No, Harden can play defense. If you don't think so then you don't watch many Rockets games. He's checked Lebron once before. If you think though that Kawhi would be the same player on the Spurs then I really don't know what to tell you. I guess I'll let Kawhi tell you himself. http://www.expressnews.com/sports/s...uilt-Kawhi-Leonard-into-a-monster-6635560.php Just read this article from start to finish and learn the impact that coaches can have on the development of players and how coaches impacted Kawhi's growth and development into who he is now. The argument is that you think Kawhi>Harden because he'd fix problems, at least you think so. I'm telling you if we had Kawhi, it wouldn't be the Kawhi of the Spurs. People are so readily to admit that Harden was a different player for OKC then Houston but then seem to think that wouldn't happen to another player. It has, every player we get nowadays seems to play worse than they should. Our culture is wrong, our coaching is broken, and the team right now is broken. Morey is great at drafting in the middle of the draft and on, great at managing the cap, great at trading...but he's built a broken team and not one player is fixing that. Kawhi would come here and do as he's told. Switch on everything and chuck up as many 3s as you can. This idea that he'd do anything different is false, especially for him.
