Star Wars is the most successful and established franchise in movie history. People are going to see it before the cast is even announced. But yes, I agree if movies already have the pre-built recognition of Star Wars, the cast does not matter in terms of ticket sales. Are you arguing that with all the market research that Hollywood invests in to maximize their profits, they have it completely wrong about which actors have the most mass appeal? What data have you taken to back that up other than saying a 30-year old movie establishment had one black actor? Maybe we're talking about two different things. I'm talking about the main purpose of professional sports and Hollywood movies from the perspective of a studio executive or professional sports owner is to get people in the seats. In sports, people want to watch the best players. In movies, people want to watch the stars that appeal to them. While I agree there's a lot more subjectivity and variation the general public has towards who is your favorite actor than who is your favorite sports player, there is still clear front-runners when it comes to mass appeal. Meaning, which actor can we get that will attract the most people to go see the film. For a generic, race-independent role, white actors have more mass appeal, and unfortunately this is probably only to become even more pronounced with China set to become the world's #1 movie market. I mean, have you seen this? So you're talking about the decision to nominate an African American over another white candidate as being subjective, which I agree with. To that I would say there just were not any clear African-American favorites this year or last year. There was nothing like 12 Years A Slave that just had a huge critical buzz around it from the moment it was released. I mean, if you're arguing that Will Smith should have been nominated over someone else or it's racism, I don't really have anything to debate about. I have not gotten the impression that he was that well received in that movie to be anywhere close to guaranteed a nomination. But again, I don't think the decision to nominate one person over another is an argument worth having. As you mentioned, it's totally subjective. By far and away, the biggest issue is the lack of juicy roles for African Americans. I think there is a myriad of reasons for this with the least likely being "enlightened, greedy Hollywood liberals ignore data saying that white actors really don't have any more mass appeal than other actors, but still give roles to whites because they are racist." One, you are assuming that Hollywood is not all about making money. Two, you are assuming that massive amounts of research does not go into casting decisions and the types of movies that are made. I mentioned a few other reasons that result in a lack of African American roles: 1.) Tons of American roles go to British/Australian thespians. Maybe there is something to that. Maybe they have better classical training? I don't know. The vast majority of these actors are white. Even African American roles are going to black British actors (12 years a slave, Selma). Do we have an out-sourcing problem? Or are roles being given to who can act the best? 2.) Would be interested in seeing the data of how many African American get started in Drama in High School or go onto Film School. 3.) Most historical roles are centered around white people. Write down the first 25 historical English-speaking figures that come to your mind (let's say before 1950) and tell me how many were black. These are the roles the Academy loves, and the reason why most historical movies that contain African Americans revolve around slavery. Pretty huge strawman there, and not at all what I am saying. What I am saying is all things being equal in a movie, would having white actors and actresses get more or less people in the seats? Would it have no bearing?
I think raging at Hollywood is stupid when the issue really boils down to systemic inequality. If the majority of the wealth in this country was concentrated in the black community, the entertainment business would be predominantly aimed at them. Follow the money. It's not hard.
Was there an announcement by the National Minority Union that decreed black actors represent all minority groups or something?
You missed the point though. It's not about Star Wars or the title of Star Wars. Big movies with big names attached to them flop every single year. There are surprise hits every year. The thing is though you don't need mass appeal to succeed in sports. You just have to be better. Tim Duncan has no mass appeal, he's just better, his team is just better. That's the main difference here. Also yes, I did see that. That's exactlythe point though. The idea is that as you said "For a generic, race-dependent role, white actors have more mass appeal" but as Star Wars has shown, that's not exactly true. That is not the only variable that goes into a movie's success. Yet it's the idea that Hollywood has that a movie needs white leads to have success. That's not an argument I even want to have. There will always be snubs with these shows because it's all subjective. There will always be people that think this should have got recognition or this. So I agree there, there is nothing to debate about here. Those engaging in that debate can have fun with it. I think the point and it's not just african americans, but every other minority but I digress...is that it really doesn't matter. Look, this argument happens in every form of creative media. I've seen it and it happens in games. The main character is usually a middle aged white dude. That's what game devs/publishers tend to believe sells, that's who they think their audience is...except that when you take GTA and have a black lead... There are other variables to this. The thinking is wrong, we know that because television has proved it. You can have important minority characters, leads, and be just absolutely fine. In the end MOST people don't care, they want to be entertained. Their data is skewed since most movies feature white people in the big roles. Again, Television has basically proved that people are willing to watch minorities play large roles and Hollywood is lagging behind. Also, I never called any one in Hollywood racist, they have a problem with it though. That much is clear. You have a point...but again my Katniss example would say that no. That's not always the case. Sometimes the case is exactly as you yourself has pointed out...a large role is given to a white person because they think that's what helps sell the movie. It would be, but representation is important. I bet you'd see more if you saw more black actors in bigger roles. Well, that's by choice. There are TONS...TONS of stories with minorities. TONS. They just do not get told as much. It's not like black people didn't exist before the 50s. Honestly, I don't think it's that big of a variable. Unless we are to agree that white america is only comfortable with seeing white actors in lead roles? I don't think that, I don't think white america is any more racist than any other ethnicity in america. I think that Hollywood leans towards white actors because they think its safe moreso than "Yeah, this will get us money." Obviously there is a part of america that prefers white actors getting roles in big movies. Again with Hunger games or anything, when a black actor is cast there is uproar from the most racist americans that the movie is being "PC" or whatever. like when Rue was cast as a black girl...despite being black in the books too lol..we see that. I think what many minorities are saying is that hey, we exist. Representation is important. Having an opportunity for these roles is important. Not to hide behind "Big names sell." well that's true. Big names do sell, but they don't have to be white. We know that thanks to every other creative medium, music, television, whatever. We also have black athletes that are absolute stars. They could be sold if Hollywood tried selling them.
This is why women cannot be trusted. This kind of tabloid bs means something to them. I don't find anything hypocritical about Will Smith because he didn't want to kiss another guy and his wife says black are underrepresented in Hollywood.
What was your problem with my statement? I'm agreeing with you that Hollywood is not racist. I think if given a chance minorities might watch mostly their own race's entertainment. It just isn't realistic that any one minority would have enough content to support that endeavor. Also, being a minority makes it highly unlikely to not experience white and/or other minorities' culture. Eh, I don't even think it's a wealth thing. Movie producers may or may not be racist but they definitely want to make more money. The thing is people want to see people that look like themselves and they relate more to their own culture's issues. Producers make movies that they think more people will see.
I came here to see if there was any Stacy Dash talk. Mmm! She still looks amazing at her age. I agreed with her comments though. Real talk that so many are afraid to speak. I'd care more about this topic if it was an issue covering all non white groups, instead of course as usual, black people have made it only about themselves. One day they will get their chance to be equal at anything and everything up top with white people and it will be that moment when other cultures or races beg for their chance to even be cast in small roles, much less nominated(OR WIN) for awards and those black people won't give a **** because they are racist and only care for their own race. This entire issue needs to be about everyone equally, but this here be America gentlemen. **** the rest of us. Black and White, White and Black. That's all that ever matters. This isn't even an issue about white washing either which is the real issue. Casting majority white actors isn't that big of an issue because white sells. It's proven. White people also generally get into theater arts far more than any other race. Theater and acting have been a big part of white culture since Ancient Greece. But, when real life people of minority race are cast as white people is when the issue becomes very real for me. For example ARGO. Ben Affleck plays Tony Mendez. That role didn't require intense acting from Affleck that someone a bit less talented couldn't have pulled off. Why the **** couldn't a latino play Mendez? Why did the movie 21 cast real life asians as white dudes? The complaining about crap like Goku is asian! Is he? Thought he was alien, and he's drawn closer to a white person than asian. He also turns blonde hair and blue eyed. Then there is Destan from Prince of Persia. He's white in the video game. There are millions of white persians. Last Airbender? Again, they aren't any of our races. It's a fictional cartoon influenced by many different cultures created by white dudes. Nah. That's all garbage. What really matters is taking away our real life heroes and making them white. Our children growing up only learning stories of white people portrayed as true story heroes. That's a very big issue. You could argue in the case of Argo and 21 that they needed these talented actors who just happened to be white because big names sell and most of the big names are white. Fine, but Hollywood made them into big names. How will minorities ever have a big name that sells if they are never given the opportunity? In Drive, Irene was written as a latina mother who was married to a latino played by Oscar Issac. The director chose Carey Mulligan, a white girl bc she showed more innocence and the need for protection than latin women. Lol. That's a perfect opportunity to give a young talented latina a role that would give her a name. Jim Sturgess who is not even that great of a name or actor stole 2 asian roles already in his career. 1 of which in Cloud Atlas, they went 1940s silver screen racism and gave his eyes prosthetic's to make him look asian. There are countless other examples. Then there is the whole issue of casting minority roles to the light skinned types. Asians, hispanics, native american etc that have made it tend to be lighter skinned. This continues the same psychological effect as just white people being our heroes in every form of media. Asia is big with skin bleaching and plastic surgery to look more like white people. That's disgustingly sad. Latin countries look at dark skinned people like they are trash, uneducated savages as Europeans made them believe long ago. All of their soap operas are a bunch of beautiful white people living in mansions while the brown people are comedic relief. ****ing clowns is all they are. I see light skinned black people **** on all the time by darker black people. Probably an insecurity issue with darker black people which makes them act out verbally abusive to lighter skinned black people. Light skinned blacks are typically the ones shown as sex symbols just as light skinned of other races, but i don't think as much as other races as dark black/chocolate has been a sex symbol in the past and in the present. Nah. This whole issue is all about "i dont care that black movies and actors won a **** ton of awards just 2 years ago, i want my race and only my race to win everything every year or it isn't fair." Bunch of wealthy has beens complaining just to be relevant. **** them.
Dude looks pretty white to me. What's your beef with white guys playing latinos? Does it really offend you that Affleck is talented?
This is a large post, I agree with a lot of it except for two main things. - Nearly everyone I've seen that has spoke up about this, it has been about all minority groups. As Chris Rock said, You'd have to TRY and not hire a Mexican in California, but you don't see any in Hollywood. Making it all about himself... Marlon Brando declined to go to the Oscars to stand up for Native Americans forever ago. The tag is called #OscarSoWhite after all and if you see the people bouncing that tweet around they are asian, hispanic, white, whatever. - I also don't think that "White sells" has been proven at all. We just think it is because nearly every big movie has a main cast that is white. I mentioned before, minorities have no problem selling in other forms of entertainment. Not even TV. Some of the biggest shows feature a black actress at the helm or mainly a black cast. I've said like first post in here though, Hispanics are not represented much in film if barely at all. Blacks have it better but this has been years of "Whining" as someone else would put it. I think Hollywood does it because they are afraid of taking risks though more than anything. A lot of the problems with Hollywood today is that they just don't like taking risks.
What you just said is basically a whole hearted agreement with my premise. White people have more wealth and disposable income. So, Hollywood will create media that speaks to the wealthiest groups interests. It's a deeper well to drill. Plain and simple.
I'm factoring in the substantial population super majority white people have into that whole "deeper well" theory. Probably should have that said that to start with.
2014 tickets sold whites 54% african americans 23% racist grandma isn't going to the movies. This entire discussion is really silly.
Women have more opportunities now then in any other point in history as well, doesn't mean we should just stop addressing issues like equal pay. Minorities are still not getting opportunities for roles and they've been speaking up about this for a while, along with many of their white actors and directors...and the president of the Academy... but it's a dumb conversation or silly?
It really is dumb, and some people are embarrassing themselves with this nonsense but they don't even realize it. People ALWAYS b**** about Oscar snubs but now we have people crying racism about it. LOTS of amazing actors and actresses don't have Oscars and it has nothing to do with what race they are.
Looks like you don't understand what this is about. When you have people like Clooney saying what he said about it among many other people in this field that are successful and again...the president of the Academy...then maybe you need to step back a bit from it. Whoopi Goldberg had a good point about it, it's too bad they just didn't let her talk about one of the few things she has knowledge about. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/a9foV1hs4AY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> It's not about whose the snub, you can argue about that ALL DAY. That someone should get in over someone else. It's about movies being more diverse and representing the country better. I don't agree with anyone whining about not being nominated. For those that do like Will, they should come out and throw shade on who they should replace then. I really don't think the Academy is nominating people on whiteness, I never suggested they are. I don't think they get together and go "Lets exclude all minorities this year!" I think they vote on what they feel is best, if anything I think they like it when Halle Berry wins, or Lupita, or Ang Lee. They have a black president after all. So the boycott is silly. The discussion about whether Hollywood represents or has enough diversity is not silly.
