[ClutchFans] Houston shouldn't turn its back on Dwight Howard

You might want to read up a bit on AD. For nine years, AD was in the NBA top ten in Offensive Rating and Offensive Win shares, while being a terrible defender as a 6'5 swing man. There are a LOT of a parallels:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5288
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dantlad01.html

Over the next 7 seasons, the undersized low-post machine would post truly ridiculous efficiency marks, leading all players in Offensive Rating from 1980-86 despite one of the highest Usage %'s in the league. He also shot 53 foul shots for every 100 field goal attempts, one of the best marks in the game (and certainly the best by a player 6'5" or shorter). As a result, Dantley had more Offensive Win Shares than any other player during his Jazz days -- more than Bird, Magic, Kareem, Moses, you name it.

Unbelievable... From 1980-86, at the same ages, Dantley was without question a more effective offensive player than Larry Bird was for six of the seven seasons... Wrap your brain around that.

Unfortunately for Dantley, though, defense is the other half of the game -- and as good as A.D. was offensively, that's almost how bad he was on D. Frank Layden locked horns with his star often, and it's not hard to see why: with Dantley as their best player, Utah ranked dead last in points allowed per possession in 1980, and 4th-to-last in '81 & '82. Surprisingly, the Jazz made a quantum leap on defense in 1983 and were the NBA's best by 1985, but that had little to do with Dantley and everything to do with the addition of 2-time DPOY Mark Eaton at center. According to Defensive Points Added, Dantley didn't show much (if any) improvement despite the Jazz's meteoric rise on D:

Year Team DPA
1980 UTA -2.15
1981 UTA -2.43
1982 UTA -2.80
1983 UTA -2.66
1984 UTA -2.81
1985 UTA -1.83
1986 UTA -2.92

The other knock on Dantley was his poor reputation as a teammate -- allegedly he was not a team player, unwilling to sacrifice shots & touches for the greater good, and prone to a bad attitude when his scoring numbers were threatened.

In 1987, Dantley seemed to get the last laugh over Layden and every coach who ripped him (Cotton Fitzsimmons once said that no team could ever win with Dantley), and A.D. led the Pistons in scoring en route to the Conference Finals, losing to Boston in no small part because Dantley was knocked out of Game 7 with a concussion (in addition to the obvious: Isiah Thomas' infamous turnover to Bird in Game 5).

In 1988, Detroit moved closer to the brink of a title with Dantley as their leading scorer, but they lost the 7th and deciding game of the Finals after spotting the Lakers a 15-point lead in the 4th quarter

 

So your point is that with an historically bad defender, a team was still able to be the best defensive team in the league?

And because that guy was gifted offensively, he was able to carry a team to a title run?

 

Are you talking about Harden or Curry? Lol both not so great defenders but Curry should be better :grin:

 

Still don't get presuming that Harden is the next Dantley. Hell a lot of the times Harden's problem is he is too passive and unselfish in the 1st half and waits for the 2nd half to turn it on. He is not a selfish player.

Get a legitimate coach to set up real plays and that will eliminate a lot of the garbage we're seeing now.

 

And what happened in the next two years?

Also, I am going to correct the above post, which was pretty nice though. Leading scorer was misleading: Isaiah Thomas was clearly their best player on both ends of the court, as Dantley was actually in decline offensively. He did not "lead" the Pistons to their WCF and Finals appearances; leading scorer is deceptive. In fact, he held them back; that's the point.

For the Jazz as the best player, he didn't do jack for them, in the grand scheme of getting a championship. Never made it over the hump. Also, easy to consider every team he left, they got better (in which there is always context behind that of course, depending on trade pieces, FA, etc.).

Nobody is ever 100% similar, but that is exactly that they said with Dantley.

 

Jimmy Butler

PER - 21.75 Win Shares - 5.4 WS/48 - .208 Box Plus Minus - 4.9 Estimated Wins added - 7.0 Real Plus Minus - 4.36

Klay Thompson

PER - 18.01 Win Shares - 3.4 WS/48 - .149 Box Plus Minus - 0.5 Estimated Wins Added - 4.1 Real Plus Minus - 0.6

James Harden

PER - 24.45 Win Shares - 5.0 WS/48 - .177 Box Plus Minus - 5.4 Estimated Wins added - 9.5 Real Plus Minus - 4.59

Box plus minus and Real plus minus are stats that try to show contributions from BOTH offense and defense.

Again this in a down Harden year and very good Butler and Thompson years.

Also in before stats are stupid, cherry picking, eye ball test, blah blah blah.

 

because if you haven't noticed that's not what the Rockets feature offensively. Howard has adjusted to this so of course his offensive numbers are going to suffer. that shouldn't be surprise to anyone who follows the rockets closely. Why are you going to bring it up when it's something that has been limited by choice of change when Howard came back last year.

 

Forgot to add that Harden leads the 3 in Value over replacement as well.

And to get back on topic. I pray we can bring back Dwight on a cheaper deal, but I don't see it happening. We are in a pretty rough spot with him. I like what he brings especially now that he has gotten away from too many post ups which has brought his turnovers down and his field goal percentage up.

 

Harden leaving his man wide open. Hard to comeback like that.

 

Gotta keep Dwight, it's hard getting talent you don't ever want to let it go. We just need to keep H&H and grab another player. Like a Gordon Hayward or paul George? I know not realistic but he's my dream pick up. He would be great with harden and Dwight.

Just think if ariza could dunk shoot 3s play better defense and dribble and you have paul George.

The rockets look really good when ariza scores 20+ points. We would get that every game if we had PG or GH.

 

Paul George is a beast. He would be the perfect fit next to Harden at SF.

 

I wish we would have signed Farouq Al-Aminu instead of Brewer.

As for Howard, I don't think we trade him if we picked things up by the deadline to where we are looking at a 4-6 seed. Otherwise, I can see him being moved for 50 cents on the dollar to not overpay.

 

Their Homies too both from California.

We wouldn't even have this problem had Morey just drafted Leonard with the 14th pick. We would easily have the best big 3 in basketball.

 

if this if that. that's how the nba is. you get lucky with some players and other you dont. its all a risk. so easy for people just to sit there and say he should have done this after the fact. people need to let it go and stop finding the slightest things like everything would turn out the way they have now.

 

It's not that simple. The Spurs, mainly Pop, makes a big difference. You put Harden, Ariza, Jones, and Dmo in a Spurs uni and things change. The Spurs or the Warriors system is just superior. I think Leonard might just be Jones 2.0 as a Rocket give or take.

 

do you believe now?

 

In his last 5 games, Dwight Howard is averaging 22 and 14, easily his most consistently productive 5-game stretch of the season.

Hope he keeps this up!

 

Oh yeah.. baby.

 

That is the only part I agree with you...

T_Man

 

We were able to re-sign Brewer (may God rue the day ) because we had his (early?) Bird rights. We used the MLE on KJ and Harrell, and Aminu got more than the full MLE anyway.