Sure, using a gun makes suicide attempts more successful but having a gun or not having a gun plays no other role. A person uses a gun gets it right on the first try most of the time, a person tries to cut themselves, take pills, or hang themselves often fail many times before they get it right.....either way it's a pretty stupid thing to harp on in a gun debate but again, since you don't have anything substantive, you go with what you have right?
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0rR9IaXH1M0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/a9UFyNy-rw4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Voted Disarm as well.
From the same link I provided earlier. As I suspected, you do not understand suicide. Yes, exactly. Gun = high success. Where you assumed wrong is people keep trying until they succeed. That's not the case. Who cares? Death from suicides due to gun is something like 2x the death from gun violence. You can't talk about gun issues and not talk about suicide because of it's impact to it. Maybe you don't care. People that care about life care.
No they don't. The stat he posted says that states where its harder to get access to a gun leads to less death by guns. I don't argue this. This is an incredibly stupid and meaningless claim though, as the purpose of gun laws is not to reduce the number of death by guns. first thing i wrote in my post was why his stat is meaningless thus countering. I actually assumed robbie made an honest mistake. You read a chart not realizing the metric they are using isn't what you think it is. I've done it. So i gave him the data I thought he meant.
Hope you never have a loved one that tries to off themselves. I mean who cares right? **** the mentally ill right?
Yes, who cares? I'm not worried about people who want to kill themselves, that's their decision. I don't think anyone else should be concerned about it either, the thing to be concerned about is violent crime and people who want to hurt other people. The ONLY reason you are so keen to keep suicide in the discussion is because there's no way to come up with numbers that matter without trying to lump in as much as possible. People killing themselves isn't really a problem to be seriously concerned about, people killing others would be.
NYT headline: "Tearful Obama Outlines Steps to Curb Gun Deaths" http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/us/politics/obama-gun-control-executive-action.html
Sure. I have had some people close to me that killed themselves, but that was their decision to make.
My favorite part was when he said "That's my Quarterback" and then went to meet up with the gun lobby afterwards to get a payment under the table for increasing their profits like no one ever has before. Obama is to the gun industry what Steve Jobs was to Apple.
A suicide or accidental death caused by a gun is a gun related death. If someone was killed by a gun then it would be a gun related death. The study you posted is interesting, but I think it is cherry picking and flat out irresponsible if you want to ignore all gun related deaths. Additionally, it seems the author you linked misinterpreted the data he calculated. In the comments section there was a pretty good commentary on it. http://relativitydigest.com/2015/10/03/do-more-gun-laws-prevent-gun-violence/ Also, the Brady study linked (http://www.bradycampaign.org/sites/default/files/SCGLM-Final10-spreads-points.pdf) in your story seems to confirm the chart I posted. Lastly, I agree about your point on murders and violent crime declining significantly in our lifetimes. This is constantly forgotten or ignored. I started up a thread a few weeks back about how people forget how much the violent crime and murder rate have dropped in the past 30 years. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=270980
I know you don't care. When you don't mind killing a bunch of babies, why would you care about suicides. Do know you aren't humane. Most other human do care. The reason to keep suicide in the discussion is because the vast majority of gun deaths in the US are from suicide. Discounting suicide, I wouldn't sneeze at 10+k death per year due to gun violence and another 80+k non-fatal injuries due to gun violence. Your assumption is making you look very ignorance once again. People that are willing to kill themselves are obviously mentally ill. People that kill other people are also quite often mentally ill. They aren't exclusive to each other. Mentally ill access to gun is a huge problem and concern for society. It's very valid to discuss how to remove gun from the mentally ill.
If someone dies in a routine surgery or they die under hospice care, they still die while being medically supervised. One would not hold deaths under hospice care against the quality of the medical care provided though, because that was the intended result. Imagine there are two foot bridges over a chasm. One of them has a loose board that results in 3 people per year falling to their deaths. It is also poorly lit, which attracts muggers who kill another 7 people per year on that bridge. The second bridge has no accidental deaths, and is well lit with metal detectors and armed guards at either end, so there are no accidental deaths and no muggers. On the other hand, there is an observation platform in the middle that extends over a very long drop, and 20 people per year jump from that point to their death. Which bridge is safer? Suicides are much different than homicides and accidental deaths, and putting them into the same category to try to push a legislative agenda is intellectually dishonest. This is especially so when the agenda is sold not by reference to the far more common suicides, but by a subset of the far less common homicides, specifically the mass homicides (which are themselves grouped together with mass shootings, so that events where no one is killed can be added to the likes of Sandy Hook and we can be told that on average there is more than one mass shooting per day). The reason these things are done is because there is not going to be a broad base of support for gun control if people are informed that they are almost certainly safe from guns so long as they are not suicidal or gangbangers.
I think the goal of the legislation being talked about is to reduce gun related deaths, not just homicide. Also to compare it to medical supervision that includes hospice care isn't valid. Hospice care will always have death at the end of it. The purpose of that is to provide comfort and quality of life for the time remaining.
This is the honest portion of what you just said. The reason to keep suicide in the discussion is because that's the vast majority of your numbers. You lose those numbers and people laugh at you when you try to claim that there is an epidemic problem. Anything to inflate the numbers to push an agenda.
Good luck, as far as I can tell you are now the 2nd or 3rd BBS member to attempt to try to disprove the 1:1 correlation between guns and gun violence, gun injuries and gun fatalities. You didn't establish it yet, but if you keep arguing, some day you might get there. Thumbs up, soldier.
The reason to keep it in the discussion is because it's valid. Number aren't inflated. They are real and reality. Anything to artificially deflate the numbers to push your ignorance.
They really aren't valid. The difference is pretty obvious, the community is not at risk when someone decides to kill themselves. The community at large is at risk when people kill others....and that's why it matters. If someone wants to blow their head off, I say rock on, it's their business and their life. If someone wants to hurt others, then I have a problem with it. Combining the numbers from when someone hurt themselves with the numbers when someone hurt someone else is done specifically to inflate numbers to push an agenda. You and I both know that if you try to push for sweeping legislation based on a 10k number, you won't get much traction.....and even worse, if you use those numbers, studies have shown that there is no correlation between gun control laws and gun homicides. Roll suicides into the mix, and it's much easier to push your narrative because you can triple the numbers and suicides are higher in the small states.
That's YOUR narrow view. Gun deaths rather suicide or killing other are all gun deaths. Reducing gun deaths is reducing gun deaths. You may be only concerned about your well being, but most people care more than just themselves. They care about their family members, their friends, their coworkers, their neighbors, the troubled teenagers, the incredible number of veterans in stress daily, and so on. These are all people. These ARE the community of people and any death to member of the community is important for the community.
