Breakdown: Bickerstaff Was Talking About James Harden

Iverson was really inefficient though. I don't think he was as good a passer either

 

Honestly ...no. Harden is not the rockets. rockets fans are not equal to harden fans. The team in the end will be after harden is gone with rockets fans.
I will hope for the best for him because right now he wears the jersey but im not gpnna lie to myself for his flaws or burry the head in the sand. If someone wants to by all means but not me.
And cancer from cancer is different. Is it laziness bad motivation or egoitism and selfishness? Dont know. Im not gonna paint harden anything i dont know unless more come in public.

Yes but u see the game has changes since a.i was in the leaugue. The offences and the defences have changed tremendously.

Well its just my humble opinion that if a.i was in the leaugue in this era he would not be a winner. Im not some kind of nba savvant as we all know.
But teams have gotten much smarter since then.

 

Is this team inconsistent? Oh, hell yes. Is Harden this season? Is Howard? Same answer. Hell yes. Is the coaching during games inconsistent? Same answer, in my humble opinion.

We can sure as the sun comes up in the morning say the same damn thing about this forum. Beat the second best team in the Western Conference on Christmas Day in a thrilling game and the praises are all over the place. Lose the next night to a team we should have beaten? The world is ending. The word to describe the GARM is schizophrenic. Might describe the team the same way. That puts the GARM on the same level as the Rockets. I'm not sure what that means, but it can't be good.

 

Totally respect your opinion...

But as someone stated... With A.I skills he would dominate this league... If you think Curry is unreal... A.I numbers would be off the scale..

T_Man

 

I liked the guy but his career 3pt% is 31%

 

You've made a nice analogy in the last few posts and I think there's a lot of merit in your argument. But here's a couple of reasons where your argument is on shaky ground:

1) Harden's motor - I don't think anyone can argue that Harden is inconsistent in his intensity on the court. There are games (including playoff games) where he seems completely disengaged. Iverson may have disregarded the real purpose of practice (to build synergy among a team), but he never lacked for effort on the court. He was a ferocious competitor every game, as was Steve Francis, Kobe Bryant and the greatest of all me-first, my-way players, Michael Jordan. While I'm more partial to great team players like Bird, Magic and Duncan, I do think you can build a championship team around more selfish players but only if they are consistent in their effort. But you cannot build around an inconsistent player for obvious reasons - there simply aren't enough roster spots (or salary cap) to cover all the holes that an inconsistent player creates.

2) Coaching is a temporary fix for "my way" players - You've suggested that coaching can coax a "my way" player into playing winning basketball. The problem is that such a change is almost always temporary - perhaps 2-3 seasons at most. That gives a team a very narrow window to win a championship before the "my way" superstar starts tuning out the coach and reverts to bad habits. So in these cases, the GM has the herculean task of coordinating the hiring of the right coach and signing of the right role players in order to build around this inflexible superstar. It can be done, but the odds are long and the window is brief.

3) "My way" players almost never win - Iverson didn't win anything and was ultimately as much as a ceiling for the 76ers championship hopes as he was a cornerstone. Francis obviously never won and had a steep drop off once teams stopped catering to him. Kobe and Michael are the two exceptions, and they were (during their championship years) perhaps the best and definitely the most obsessively competitive players.

What is my point with all this? My point is that trying to build around Harden will almost certainly be a failure. The flaws and inconsistency in his game playing style don't lend themselves to making him a cornerstone because there is no realistic combination of coaching and role player teammates that can make it work. How can you build around a guy who plays no defense and disappears for a quarter of the games (including playoff games)?

You can't.

 

Really disagree with the "My Way" players never win.

Jordan was a complete my way guy. Lebron is too, Lebron tries to get GM duties...so yeah...

 

Thats fine about the window because anyway most windows last only 2-3 years.

Jordan was goat. Why even compare a GOAT with harden?
And lebron didnt win his way. He went to rileys team to win not "his way".

 

Does it matter? The argument was that you don't win it "Your way" well yes you can. Also, Lebron with to Miami and still ran things. He did whatever he wanted to do. Before he left he had the team drafting who he wanted them to draft. Everything was on his terms and in the end he made two HOF players play to his talent.

Also, Hakeem was very "My way"

Star players usually force others to play their way. They usually get their way. Magic had a coach fired, I mean you can really go down the list with this stuff. They have ego's and usually for a reason.

Any ways this idea that there is one way a player has to be is wrong. A lot of the great dynasties are more because of players/coaches. You find a coach that gets the most out of his player and knows how to push his buttons. We obviously don't have that here. You also have teammates that play well off of that player, we don't have that either.

 

Of course it will almost certainly be a failure... well define failure I guess but Harden almost certainly will NEVER win an NBA championship as the best player in his prime, but that doesn't mean its still the teams best shot at getting deep in the playoffs.

That's kind of understood. But what I'm weighing is what is our best opportunity at this point? With Philly before it was Iverson vs. the alternative, and with the Rockets its with Harden vs. the alternative.

What is the alternative to Harden??... Jeremy Lin, Omer Asik, and Chandler Parsons? The point is we can't just say that because he's a flawed star that he needs to be surgically removed like a cancer. We know that AT THE VERY LEAST he's good enough to get us three years in a row of 50+ win seasons. That's reason enough to keep him vs. the alternative.

Can you build around Harden with different combinations??? I think so.. look at last year. Again we are learning more and more about what works around him. Coach McHale worked then, but doesn't now. Beverley and Terry worked but Lawson doesn't. Sporatic players like Brewer probably need to substituted with more reliable players. etc. etc.

The Rockets need to give Morey another shot at fostering a better system, culture, coach, and some different players vs. the alternative... which is trading him... (especially now when his value is lower)

 

See this is where I hate stats... You can't compare his skill level and what he could do on the court to his stats.... It's now a fair comparison of what A.I brought to the table.

T_Man

 

for better or worse harden will be here as long as he wants to be. morey can't find equal value in trade, and les won't want to get rid of his #1 money maker.

harden is basically a teenager with no boundaries, no parental control. he's had weak "player friendly" coaches his entire career that let him do whatever he wants. what we need is a strong minded coach to hold him accountable.

there is a reason harden spoke highly of working for thibs on team usa. out of control teens respect those who give them structure... once they are done testing the strength of that structure. harden will do the same with a serious coach. i believe he wants to be great, and many great scorers go through a selfish period before learning to trust their teammates and commit to defense.

he's got 5 elite years left. 7 if he stays healthy and in shape. we have a good sized window but we have to pair him with a serious coach, and a serious sidekick. i'm not taking anything away from dwight, but james needs a second go-to player to take the ball out of his hands from time to time.

 

This.

No where in the article is there any quote from JB or anyone associated with the Rockets claiming it is Harden. Further the writer seems to not understand NBA defenses.

 

Because their way didnt include motor issues or being selfish or conserving energy only for offence and llead teams to losses. And yes ofc it matters if u compare a player with the greatest of all time.
Lebron u say had it his way but he shared the team and ball with two other superstars. Getting the team to draft someone is not the "my way" we are talking about here.
If harden had the work ethic consistency motor defence intensity sharing of the ball with two other high usg stars of lebron then who cares if he makes morrey draft someone after he wins two freaking championships. He could ask us to draft his mother and i would be fine with that.

 

I think the point you are making is a good one, great even.

Let's look at another flawed superstar.

Dirk Nowitzki. He's a 7 foot dude that for most of his career has been known for hitting jump shots. A meh back to the basket game, decent rebounding and defense and before his championship most people would have reserved some things about him.

For example, many thought he was a choker. Had a 60+ win team go out in the first round. Came up short many times.

Eventually they got the right guys around him and eventually they won it all.

The alternative to Harden is rebuilding again. People really don't know how slippery a slope that is. The T'wolves are still rebuilding after Garnett, the 6ers still after Iverson...what Morey did with getting Harden is VERY VERY rare.

You ride this guy out. You realize his flaws and help hide them. Just like Dallas did with Dirk. They got a guy that would feed him shots (as he could be passive at times) and got a big that would do the dirty work that he didn't always want to do.

This is what the Rockets need to do. They need to find a coach that can push Harden's buttons and teammates that can help hide his flaws.

 

The alternative could be : simmons smart and bradley with capspace.
Or dlo randle and a top3 pick.
Or noel saric simmons and two firsts.
Or payton oladipo and gordon/hezonja.
Not asik parsons etc.

 

Doug Collins not Hubi

 

He brought a lot of bricks to the table

 

Like your points...

But the thing is both of those teams held on to those players too long..

Utah held on to Dantley too long.. When he was traded to Detroit he started the same antics and he was surrounded by veteran stars... The difference is Detroit shipped him out quickly.


T_Man

 

Yeah, it was Doug Collins.