ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Kings 12/15/2015

Rep.

This is basically it.

Everyone on a team has a role. Harden does his, at least he does his more often than others do theirs. What is it that Harden does? Well, he scores points and he sets up teammates. He often heats up in the 4th, did it these past two games where he tried his best to score enough points to scrape out a win.

We need other guys to do what they are paid to do. Namely Dwight and Lawson.

These are two "Stars" that do nothing for us right now. Lawson barely even plays. When he does he's pretty bad outside of like 4 games or something. He refuses to shoot, defers to anyone he can, and does nothing.

Howard is supposed to get rebounds and protect the paint. He's not doing those things.

At least Harden is doing what is expected of him. He's not the best defender a lot of the times but did that stop the team last year? No, they played good team defense. I'm always telling people that great team defense can hide bad defenders. The Pistons team was proof of this, the warriors are proof of this. There are always bad defenders on bad teams. When Thibs coached the bulls he had plenty of them...but they knew their principles, where to be, and how to play for another.

These guys don't.

 

Harden most of the time is on the perimeter. Since he doesn't go for rebounds (he has a lot of missed rebound opportunities, too many) then he must leak immediately in defence. This is nothing new it happens to everyone. Esp since a LOT of those turnovers that lead to fast breaks happen from him on the perimeter.
True that EFG% of offence leads to better defence and less transition opportunities but our transition defence sucked also last year as well and the main reason again was the wings.
There's simply no way around it.
The biggest problem with our defence is transition and the main culprit to transition defence is Harden.

I dont' give a rats ass about Brewer. I didn't say to get rid of Harden, this is a fantasy that will never happen.
But to say that the main culprit of our bad defence IS NOT harden is plain wrong. He is. Because of transition. He is one of the main reasons to lead in transition and he refuses to defend it at all.
Also about Dwight or any other Center when the perimeter players allow so much penetration no center on this earth will be able to compensate for that adequately.

(Don't even start about backdoor cuts).

 

Funny that Casspi was playing on veterans minimum for the Rockets and was shipped. Did you notice his stats line: 19 PTS (8-11 from the field and 3-4 from 3-point land), 6 RB (3 off and 3 def), 6 AST and 2 STL. Yes, he had 5 TOs, but still, compared to most Rockets, that stats line was better. That should ring a bell. To me, it looks that the Rockets player development gets a negative score. The money is invested in wrong players and ineffective lineups. Based on this nights performance, the Rockets are going to disintegrate. It was easy to blame McHale on everything. Now it looks like he was a coach who new how to get the best out of his roster.

 

The impact Harden's D has on this team is as big and if not bigger than anything Corey Brewer does that negativity impacts the team. 90% of the time he does that thing where he just floats around switching on every opportunity so he can move as little as possible. This wacks out the entire defensive rotations. Like I said before. The entire team plays man while he plays zone and that isn't what is supposed to happen. As a result teammates have to compensate and as a result the opponent almost always had an open look or a back door cut that is wide open.

 

No he doesn't do what is expected of him. Because the expectation of any player that is called NBA PLAYER is not to be a botomless pot in defence that allows everything. Is Kanter doing what is expected of him? NO. He even though he is an offensive weapon MUST play better defence ,same as Harden.
Monta Ellis whow is a defenseless chucker too is expected to play better defence.

If you dont' critisize and DEMAND the basics from a player that plays so many minutes then there is really no point. Let's make Harden an IT then to come off the bench for instant offence a 6moy. Because that's what you are saying we should be expecting and talk no bad of his SERIOUS flaws that hurt the team and has lead it right now to be only two games ahead of the 13th seed.

 

No NBA team will ever win a championship with Harden as the main guy.

 

Rockets develop their players well, it's just that because of Morrey's strategy as GM they dont' have a lot of patience. Other than that the development IN THE TEAM is one of the better around the league. But to have a player reach their potential it takes a lot of patience and a lot of years and it's always a gamble.

 

He has to run out to Gay because that's his man in the first place and Harden's standing around in the paint watching the ball. Also that's a 3s violation, but refs don't call that anymore.

As for transition D, you're right that when he drives he's not going to be the first man back. But close to 40% of his shots are above the break 3s and he needs to get back.

 

As long as Harden floats around on defense and ball watches and switches when he isn't supposed to because he's wants to move as little as possible, yes, I agree

The opponent is basically playing 5 on 4 with their offensive sets. It's that bad.

The only time Harden ever tries on offense is when he is guarding the ISO player.

 

That's nowhere near true, I'm sorry dude. That's a ridiculous statement Brewers defense this year has been just as bad or worse than Harden. Even in his best games he is usually a net negative. This isn't the Harden vs Brewer discussion you are trying to turn it into. It's the Harden isn't to blame for everything discussion that you guys are losing because it's just not true.

 

But Dwight is getting 23 mil. Shouldn't he be the main guy or are we still ignoring that? Why does Dwight get a pass from you guys?

 

I'm not saying that Harden is to blame for everything. I am saying that Harden is to main no.1 culprit of our bad defence and from the looks of it it's you and the other poster who is losing this discussion because everyone else happens to agree. Oh and that only Harden fan Drogba who agrees with you and thinks Harden is a god.

 

You make it seem like it is only Harden's job to get back, it's just not. It's the team's job. This includes the bigs, yes it absolutely does. If for example Dmo and Harden are in a pick and pop and instead of Harden giving Dmo the ball he drives into the lane and misses a layup and Dmo is standing at the 3 point line waiting for the ball...It is on Dmo to trot back and stop the ball.

It's on anyone near the ball and furthest from the rim to get back. No team tells any player specifically. "Its on you to stop transition." It is team.

Defense is all about the team.

I remember a few games ago Harden shot a 3 and his guy, I think it was the nuggets game...any ways he shot a 3 and his guy goes streaking off for the fastbreak. Worrell or Bull noted this and said that when this happens it means someone else is supposed to run their behind back and play defense because Harden can't shoot the ball and run back all at once.

Yes there are times that Harden doesn't run back. I'm not saying there isn't.

I'm saying it's not all on him. Defense is all about the team, all about the unit.

Just because you have a good defensive player it doesn't mean your team will play good defense. If the Rockets were to trade for Kidd-Gilchrist they still would not be a good defensive team. They've had a multiple times DPOY, Beverly, Ariza and still do not play good defense.

Because guys get beat. No defender is going to stop some of these guys by themselves, it's on the defense to know how to rotate properly and cover for their weaknesses. We don't do that.

When teams guard Harden they do so with the knowledge that he's going to penetrate. When he does they clog the paint, try not to foul and hope he kicks it out. Because when he does they rotate out to the shooter. It's a unit playing defense on Harden. If they don't play like that what happens instead is that Harden just drives past his guy for layups all night.

 

He doesn't from me.Honestly, he looked better in yellow...it matched the big yellow streak running down his back.

 

You don't understand. It's the way Harden plays bad defense that is crippling this team. The fact that this team plays defense with Harden about 90% of the game while the team plays defense with Brewer only 25% of the game is another factor. Brewer gambles which can cause defensive collapses here and there. Harden playing zone D while the team is supposed to play man D is something that happens almost every defensive possession. Almost every other defensive possession there is one opponent who is going to find a decent look because the defensive rotations have gone to **** because Harden's teamates don't know what the **** Harden is doing on D.

 

No this was not just about Harden's defense.

 

I will emphasize over and over.

Defense is more about the unit than the player. When you have good principles and the team has chemistry then good defensive players can shine.

Blaming all of the defensive issues on Harden would not solve anything. People act like when Harden goes out of the game we turn up our defense or something.

 

The team as whole don't know what they are doing on defense.

When Harden sits do the Rockets actually look better defensively?

 

Yes defence half court is a team concept BUT a) doesn' t mean that the effect of ONE single player can't put the defence down and result into complete defensive breakdowns even in the best defensive shemes - because the best defensive shemes always demand cooperation and communication by all 5 of the players on the court and b) transition defence is not a team concept in the same sense.

Some times the wings are not possible to leak but in the vast majority of times it's their job to leak back first, not the center, not the 7 foot powerforward not even the usually tiny guards. Unless the wings go for a lot of rebounds which then will cause them to be more susceptible to transition defence BUT it will lower a lot the transition opportunities.

Unfortunately Harden misses A LOT of rebound opportunities and so his main job is to leak back not go for the rebound. Esp since a lot of the fast breaks happen off turnovers in the perimeter and the one who is closer is the perimeter players.

No matter what in all the teams, the responsibillity of transition defence falls in the perimeter players same as the rim protection falls in the C and the PF adn the rebounding is done mostly by the bigs. It simply is the way things are.


And since I repeat our biggest weakness in defence is transition (actually last time I checked our pnr defence was average level which is amazing) there is only one logical conclusion => the main culprit of our bad defence as a team is Harden.
NOT THE ONLY one but the no.1.

And I dont' want to talk about Brew because even comparing Brew to Harden should be an insult. Comparing a so called MVP caliber player to one of the worst players in the league as a defensive argument...

 

The discussion wasn't even about defense though. We have already said that Harden was great defensively and from the start actually. The fact they have to change the argument mid stream means they know they were wrong. First it was everything is Hardens fault his turnovers blah blah blah now it's just his defense lol, OK.