Prospects in the Top 100, especially those in AAA, are not universal shots in the dark. Also, guys no longer a rookie by MLB standards are usually not considered prospects.
This trade was a fair trade IMHO. How people view it depends on what fans think Appel's ceiling is. They gave up alot to fill a need but sometimes you have to give up more than you want to get the guy you've got targeted. You dont seem to care for Luhnow, what do you wish Luhnow would have done differently? For me, I wish Luhnow would've made this trade last yr at the trade deadline.
well, maybe he was just nervous, but doesn't exactly sound like the sharpest tool in the shed...maybe that's not the worst thing in the world as a closer though. seems like a good kid.
Fair enough... And hopefully both teams get what they traded for. I admit I don't know the particulars that Luhnow and company had when making the deal. Common sense is that it was a money move (saving on payroll and adding a quality talent), and there is a potential jack pot return for Crane (Giles is a good player, I haven't disagreed with that assertion). Hey Crane deserves to make money, and if the Astros win 90+ games next season he will make a ton. It had gotten quite lonely at the Astros games between 2011 - 2014. And if they were willing to move Appel and VV, why wait and not do it last trade deadline? I agree with you cold heartedly on that one! I'm fairly confident the package they gave up would have netted them practically any reliever on the market. And we could all be sitting here talking about our first word series title. And I don't hate Luhnow. I don't hate anyone. I'm irritated he made the move, but what is done is done. I've got -zero- clout with Crane, so feel relieved that Luhnow isn't be fired based on my criticism of the trade.
it's a good thing. You don't want him overthinking it when the game is on the line. Smart people tend to over analyze and often get to a point of "paralysis by analysis" and can't deliver. Dummies, like we frequently see in the entertainment & music world, will let it all hang out there because they simply don't think it through. lol. my take
Lidge is actually pretty damn intelligent. Does MLB Network Radio now and is really good/insightful. I never pegged him as dumb in the first place, but was pleasantly surprised. Would be awesome if they'd replace our current radio bores with him.
Even though I have no inside information with respect to the Astros front office, I can say with 100% certainty that this had nothing to do with payroll.
He's gotten a lot better though the years.... with the amount of media obligations these guys have as players, its like virtually taking a master class in public speaking.... so its only natural that they sound a lot better with experience. When he was at Giles' age/stage in his career... he sounded a lot like Giles did today.
It surprises me that people continue to call Obie part of the rotation. He couldn't beat out Feldman when he was injured/struggling, or Wojo, or Peacock, or a million others when there was an open slot. I refuse to suddenly call him part of an MLB rotation just because he'll get a shot on a terrible team.
He is an ok number 5 starter, not for us, as we are dealing with a playoff team, but for a team like Phillies, he is ok. Remember, he DID beat out Wojo and Peacock, the only reason he did not start with the team was INJURIES.
yeah he did, but he couldn't hold it. My point is, he's not part of a pitching rotation on a winning team. He's a AAAA type player, and making blanket statements like "we supplied the Phillies with 3/5 of a MLB rotation" doesn't show that he would have never made the Astros rotation. And probably even 25 man roster.
He has a career ERA under 4 with a whip in the 1.33 For example, Feldman has a career 4.42 ERA with a whip of 1.35 I think that he can be an average number 5 starter in many major league teams. For example, some forum members are high on Gallardo, well, he has a career 1.317 whip. Do i want Obe on my team? Well, i prefer to have a better number 5 starter, but his numbers are not that far away as those from Feldman and pitchers like him.
Yea anyone worried about losing him doesn't understand baseball well. He had zero value to us moving forward, so if he could be a piece in a deal for a major league asset, great
My main disappointment with including Appel in the deal for Giles has less to do with his "actual" value (based on his Milb performance) than it does with what the #1 pick represents. Some scouts had Appel pegged as 'slightly' above Fisher in recent rankings so switching them out may not change the actual substance of the trade in terms of quid pro quo. I think the general discontent on the board stems from the fact that the #1 pick couldn't stick with the Astros especially when guys like Kris Bryant were on the board (this is all in hindsight of course) and is further compounded by the fact that Appel was one of 5 pitchers being sent over, in the deal which seemed to diminish his overall value... I mean, a former #1 pick should (in theory) beget a good bullpen arm on his own any day of the year. The fact that Luhnow had to give up 4 quality arms + Appel was a bit shock to the system when one considers that Appel was a #1 pick. If it was Appel the 2nd rounder, or Appel the #37 pick (like Fisher), it may have been more palatable. At the end of the day, baseball drafts and prospects are all crapshoots and the only thing that matters is actual production in the big leagues. With that said, I think most here are expressing their disappointment that the potential excitement generated by having a #1 pick and the hope for the future that pick comes with, was in the end, relegated to a "5 for 2" sale with an asterisk next to his name that never included a major league pitch in an Astros uniform.
Oberholtzer has pitched over 200 big league innings, and has a career ERA of 3.94, ERA+ of 100, FIP of 3.72. Feldman is a veteran pitcher, getting paid. He'd have to have been substantially better to take his job. Obie was in the rotation until he threw at ARod. Team clearly moved him to the dog house.
At what point does a guy with a career 5.12 era in the minors stop being the #1 pick, though? Yes, it's admitting a mistake but at least they're willing to move on. Other teams would continue to hold out hope that the guy will figure it out. There's been no sign that he is. Maybe a change of scenery will do him well and he will become what he was supposed to be...a top half of the rotation pitcher with great stuff....instead if the horribly inconsistent thrower who can't put consecutive good games together.
He had a really good year in 2013 which helps his overall stats. But his numbers the last two years were not very good - last year included a WHIP of 1.59, which I would assume would have been the worst in baseball. Caveats all around with small sample sizes outside of 2014, when he had an ERA of 4.39 and WHIP of 1.38 over 140ish innings, neither of which are very good.
I would have rather traded Fisher than Appel. Appel still has that tantalizing pitch arsenal, and if he puts it together is could look really bad for us. But at this point how likely is that to happen? I'm sure somebody has done it, but it has to be extremely rare for a college pitcher to struggle through the minors, but end up being great in the pros. If he ends up as a great reliever, well we traded him for a great reliever, so that would be a wash. For that reason, swapping him and Fisher didn't bother me all that much, certainly not as much as it has some other people who for some reason think the switch means this trade is suddenly a catastrophe.
