Yup Tim Pupura got us Carlos Lee, Jenings, Woody Williams, etc... Geeshe albatross contracts that McLane utilized to keep a mid market team out of free agency, when the Astros still had Oswalt and Berkman playing well. I remember the company line about having a payroll of 100 million and how we were capped out. Attaboy Pupura left Ed Wade a lot of assets
The corpse of Miguel Tejada and Kaz Matsui disagree with you. I give all the credit to Mike Elias. He deserves to start over Hoyer and Yates.
Yep, but don't let that fact disrupt a good diatribe. Ed Wades regime brought in Springer and Keuchel, so he certainly deserves some credit because he didn't leave the cupboard bare. But to suggest he is more responsible for our current outstanding situation is ludicrously stupid.
I think I would credit Keuchel more to Luhnow. Keuchel is how he is right now because of Strom, who was brought in by Luhnow. Wade did have his moments, and he wasn't all that bad though.
But we didn't go all in. We still have McCullers. We still have Reed. We still have Martes. We still have Bregman. We still have Daz. We still have Tucker. We still have Feliz. We still have Musgrove. We still have Fisher. We still have Kemp. If VV and Appel were our only decent prospects, then yes I would agree. But they aren't. We are still STACKED. And that second paragraph is ludicrous. Just because Freddy Garcia went on to become a good major leaguer doesn't mean that the Randy Johnson trade was a mistake. We need to improve our bullpen for this year, so we did. If VV goes on to become a good closer in 2018, good for him. It doesn't change the fact that our team was not in a position to experiment with him this year. And I will leave you with this. In 2015, 15 pitchers made more than 10 appearances in AA. Mark Appel ranked 12th out of these in ERA. He ranked 11th in WHIP. 18 pitchers made more than 10 appearances in AAA. Appel was 10th in ERA and 10th in WHIP. He is no longer elite. He should garner the same reaction as if we traded Travis Bellew or Jordan Jankowski.
The Chron has blocked most of that article so I'm not sure what your retort may have been. Altuve signed with the Astros on March 6, 2007. Ed Wade was named GM on September 20, 2007. Those are the facts.
Let's say you can get Cueto for 3 years $100 million. Do you do it? For Cueto, he gets similar $$ to Price and Grienke, and can go for another big contract when he's 32. For the Astros, they aren't tied to a long term contract, and since Neshek, Rasmus, Feldman, and Gomez are all expiring next year (about $40 million total), they've got years 2 and 3 of Cueto covered. Also, Cueto's contract would expire around the time you have to start thinking about extending some of your core players. Seems like it would be a win win.
To give Jeff Luhnow a blank check because the Astros made the playoffs is stupid. Obviously, he has made some good moves. But what has he done out of the ordinary? He had the largest draft pool for practically 3 of the past 4 years. He's had the ability to dish out money to lure guys considered hard to sign into signing, because they had money. Bret Phillips, McCullers, Rios, Nottingham, Sandoval, Cameron, bla bla bla, all signed for the money, and all were seen as bonafide talented prospects. The Astros sucked, and it allowed them to pay more money. It's a strategy that allowed the Astros to have a competitive advantage with the draft. It's a strategy most of you here on Clutchfans could follow and, you'd have people riding your coat tails. He found McHughes, but gave away JD Martinez and Delino Deshields. He does not deserve all of the credit for the team making the playoffs - he did his part (he's managed an ML roster fine). A lot of people did their part. But when I see idiotic responses, that he took us from worst to the playoffs, so he can do whatever he wants without criticism, now that reeks. And I will give Tim Pupura a pass, because he was a smart man, and did good things before he was a GM. The problem with him was that he ruined his career by being Drayton McLane's yes man. Pupura unfortunately was the GM when Drayton McLane was doing his best impersonation of Jerry Jones. Safe to say Drayton McLane failed horribly, gutting a strong farm system to practically shambles. We never got to see what Pupura could truly do. However Ed Wade did his best to replenish it, via draft and trades. McLane was all about now, and good riddance to the farm. And you know what, for all we know Jeff Luhnow might not even like the trade. But, it is obvious the money will be pouring all over Crane next season. He might have directed Luhnow, F-it, put me back in the black....... There is so much we don't know that goes behind the scene, like why alter the trade? PS... Fans are allowed to have wishful thinking. You can hope that Wallace, Singleton, Folty, Deshields, Lyles, Villar turn it around; yup they may find their niche on another organization, but its any fans prerogative. And you can also criticize a team for making moves, if you think they did not get an equitable return. Maybe this next season the Astros win the first of many World Series, and Luhnow will prove his genius..... (I'm hoping that is the case) The point of contention a lot of you have that you liked the trade, I have no problem with. It's your opinion. Heck and opinions get settled and answered when the dust clears. At some point, we will see the results of this trade. Did the GM's get equal value, as what is purported?
Nobody gets a blank check. While individual moves and non-moves can critiqued on a individual basis, I think there is one simple measure that dictates most his performance from an owner and fan point of view: Are we below, above or equal to expectations? By this measure, Jeff's job is safe. More than safe. Will this remain so? Who knows.
so now we've gone from "bad trade" to "ed wade was underrated"... neat. you're having this argument with yourself, vince. not once has anyone called lunhow infallible or beyond criticism but that's literally the boogeyman you're attacking.
JD Martinez is a sticking point for you, really? He was a below average player for YEARS here and had every chance in the world to show what he could do. Sometimes people succeed with a change of scenery, he just wasn't getting it done here. If you can judge him for giving up on JD, can't I praise him for not giving up on Keuchel? He was an average prospect at best but has turned into the Cy Young winner. You pick and choose how you judge Luhnow but he tore this team down to the studs and rebuilt it into a playoff team. You can hate the trade but to say he is trash for giving up prospects to fill a need on the team that actually matters while not giving up anyone who will contribute to that team is laughable.
And I'll agree with Baseballa that if you like the trade yesterday, you should feel compelled to continue to do so.
There will be a press conference in about an hour and 19 minutes from now (1:30 p.m. CT to be exact). I think it will be on the Astros website to introduce Giles to the media.
If Velasquez suddenly stays healthy, Philly will have crushed this deal. If he continues to get hurt every year, the deal will be fine. No question that the Phillies made a great deal. They got 3/5 of a rotation, plus another C+ level pitching prospect
Guys, don't you think it is just as likely that Velasguez will just not be that great in the pros rather than getting hurt? Sure he has done well in the minors and was pretty solid last year but I felt like there were some big question marks when I watched him pitch. He didn't seem like he could miss bats and had really high pitch counts due to control and batters constantly fouling his pitches. Of course, he is young and can develop but I just wasn't that impressed watching him. I see him as a #3 guy at best and a decent bullpen option at worst. Even with homer glasses on last year I still wasn't too thrilled with his performance since he looked even shakier coming out of the bullpen the few times we had him pitch in low pressure situations. I view him as being just another guy rather than a "if he stays healthy" type of player but maybe I am wrong. If I am wrong, then yeah this trade will hurt but I feel like Luhnow has this same feeling. He knows he can acquire a proven 3rd guy in a rotation when needed throughout the season and that is probably what he felt Velasquez and Appel's ceilings were. Appel is another curious case. I just think he is too much of a headcase to amount to much but he could get his head/confidence right and that could definitely bite us as well. There are plenty of players that never got there head right and tapped their potential.
Who cares who they gave up?... Fans way overvalue/rate prospects, which are universal shots in the dark. One thing we can say definitively about this regime is that it values the draft; the previous ownership group did not - it threw away picks to sign free agents and paid pennies on the dollar for valuable selections. *That's* what kills your system. As long as the Astros continue to scout, draft and develop well, they'll easily replenish their system with the next Velasquez and Appel. The only true detriment - well, I guess there are two: you certainly don't want to trade away the next Kershaw or Harper (which they'd never knowingly do) and it moves your timeline a bit: VV and Appel were either ML-ready, or on the cusp. Now, the next wave might be delayed. But, for, like, 6-12 months.... And in return you get a cheap reliever with elite closer stuff under club control for five years. If the Astros are in the postseason mix again next year, Giles will likely be a key element.
Velasquez averaged nearly 11K/9 in the minors, and was better than 9K/9 in the majors. I don't worry much about his ability. He doesn't have to become special. A mid-rotation starter is very valuable.
