<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">It was smart of the Astros to move Mark Appel. The scrutiny around him was only going to grow;better to turn the page and use the asset now.</p>— Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) <a href="https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/675788483244515328">December 12, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
It's days like this when you learn which posters have an opinion worth respecting, or if they should just be ignored. It seems they blew the Appel pick, it happens. They hit it out of the park on Correa when he wasn't a consensus top pick. And they didn't miss on the Aiken pick either, they merely deferred it to 2015 and ended up with 3 top 5 talents in one draft. Appel isn't a decidedly better prospect than Fisher. If you believe in results in any way, Appel isn't a top prospect at all, plus we have 2 guys in Martes and Feliz who have had much better results. If he figures it out it could hurt, but we have Giles for 5 more years, he isn't a rental. If he continues to be a dominant reliever like he has the last 2 years it will he hard to feel too bad about this trade.
I disagree. Astros are flush with pitching prospects. Musgrove, martes, paulino, feliz, devenski, Ferrell, freeman, Hoyt. Starters, bullpen. They have way too many to protect all of them.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/ajhinch">@ajhinch</a> says <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Astros?src=hash">#Astros</a> have "a dynamic bullpen. That's the story of the day, not so much what inning they pitch." <a href="https://t.co/UA3VYzbUkj">pic.twitter.com/UA3VYzbUkj</a></p>— Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26) <a href="https://twitter.com/MarkBermanFox26/status/675777710820487169">December 12, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Man. Didn't think this trade would generate much hate. You've got to pay as a contender for pieces. Sometimes you're better off with a dollar bill than three half dollars.
That's what fans do, particularly all the johnny come latelys we have now. If they make a trade they complain about what they gave up, if they don't make a trade they complain that they aren't making moves. We've discussed the garmification, it's seems to be really gaining steam in this offseason.
It's valid to find fault with the trade of you really liked VV and thought the bullpen was just fine (as they were till September). However, to go from applauding the trade to declaring Luhnow an idiot simply due to the inclusion of Appel, and not Fisher, is lunacy.
I think a lot of people are irritated that we never got to see a recent number one overall pick throw so much as a single pitch in the big leagues. I am baffled as to why he has not had better success, but I really haven't seen much to lead me to believe he will meet his potential. He has not been a good pitcher in the minors. He is not a young kid. I think moving on from him was fine, but I absolutely understand the disappointment aspect as well.
I guess I was just holding out hope that Appel would turn it around (as most of us were). I like Giles and think it was a move that needed to be made, however my only concern with him is he's yet to lock down games in a pennant race where the pressure is ramped up considerably. Not saying he can't do it just wish there was a body of work indicating that he can handle it.
I love how people are complaining about trading unknowns, especially one who was disappointing in the minors, for a proven. Maybe we gave up too much, but only time will tell. But ****ing on the front office when we reached and performed in the playoffs much earlier than expected, is ridiculous.
Only way, IMO, that they would have blown the Appel pick if he were somewhat of a less touted prospect, who they 'reached' for at the #1 slot. But Appel was, by and far, the best prospect that draft. That's undisputed. Sure a couple people here and there like Bryant over Appel, but the overwhelming majority of baseball minds had Appel as the clear top prospect. The results just didn't go our way. MLB drafts are similar to crap shoots. 1/3 of 1st rounders don't go pro. If anything, Appel's pick is more indicative how hard, historically, it is, to draft, than it is "Luhnow blew it".
Why are people upset? We got eliminated because we couldn't close out an elimination game. We traded for a stud closer without giving up much major league talent. And I only say "much" if you believe VV was a contributor to last season's success. The minor league talent we gave up is not our top tier talent. In fact, the guy everyone is complaining about has had a depreciating value ever since we drafted him. We have enough depth in the minors. We are deep. We can absorb "the hit" in this trade. Even if you're worried out replenishing, Lunhow's draft strategy is great. He values the bargains over the expensive consensus. Which means, we will likely find two pitchers that will develop just as well as those we gave up. Hopefully it's better. Good trade. I actually thought Appel was included when the deal flashed on a sports ticker.
Of the last 25 top picks, only 10 of them made a significant impact on the MLB team that drafted them. The baseball draft is such a gamble it's never a sure thing. Not even the top pick is guaranteed to make the show, much less be good. Some flame out entirely, some get traded as prospects, some have struggled but had success in other places.
And when we have a starting pitcher get hurt and no good options to fill in? I still like this trade. But the Astros have emptied nearly half of what was the best farm in baseball in the Gomez, Kazmir & Giles trades. They better hold onto Reed, Bregmann, Cameron, Tucker Boys, etc and have a couple great drafts to replenish everything they gave up. If they are going to fork out the 200-250 mil it's going to take to re-sign Correa, Keuchel, Springer, Altuve. They are going to need to let guys like Gomez, McHugh, Rasmus, Castro, etc walk in free agency and replace them with developed elite prospects. I like the options they have at corner infield and in the outfield. But they are paper thin with starting pitching and someone to fill Castro's shoes Too this point Gomez & Kazmir have been complete busts as well.
Baseball is tricky, you can go from worst to first or vice versa. Just because they were one closer away last season, doesn't mean they'll be one flame ball thrower away in 2016. The package they gave away should have been given away last season. Did they think they'd sneak by the rest of MLB? The Astros started the 2015 season with a flurry and pretty much made the playoffs on that and the high priced teams floundering. They were very close to not making the playoffs, after the Angel got their act together. Some would say the Astros over performed, however they gave an exciting season to us. But, I think the Astros have gone all in too quickly. You just don't give two guys in the cusp of their ML career for a reliever, one okay but two! Did any of you see the market for what average starters are making this offseason. If the combination does not work out, the Astros are going to be left having to pick up the pieces all over again. I'm sure hoping Dallas, McCullers, and Fiers are the 123 guys Luhnow has gone all in for. McHughes I am still hesitant about long term.
After all of the trades, Moran is still your ninth best prospect according to mlb. He is a borderline top 100 guy. We are still stacked. You can't keep holding onto 35 C level prospects. You have to take the opportunity to turn three or four of them into an A level prospect. If it was a60 man roster instead of 40 man roster then maybe the strategy would be different.
The Astros still have 9 prospects who are top 100, or have a realistic shot at getting there this year. The depth isn't as insane as it was, but there is still plenty of juice. People have made judgements on the Gomez trade far too quickly. There is still a very good chance he could rebound to his 2012-2014 level, and Fiers is a proven solid MLB starter. I think it is more likely than not that Gomez, Fiers and Giles are all good/great players for us this season, although there is of course no guarantee that any of them will.
Any word if there is any validity to VV failing his physical that led to the changes in the trade pieces?
Yea VV was definitely the centerpiece of the deal. He proved last year he could have success at the big league level The key here is getting Giles under control for so long. Wouldn't have given up VV along with Appel for Chapman even as good as he is, cause it would have been for one year (before all the other stuff obviously) But Giles comes with team control. He fits in with the youth of the whole rebuild Paid a big price, but we are legitimate World Series contenders
