So the Astros lost out on Aikens and Appel. The consensus #1 picks in 2013 and 2014. Luhnow is an idiot. The Aiken thing was what it was. But they followed Appel for two whole years. Stupid!!!
Mark Appel had a career MiLB ERA of 5.12. Detach yourselves from the fact that he was a number one pick, he just can't put it together. He's already 24 years old!! He's not a youngster anymore. I'm personally happier to keep Fisher.
Dude. Step away from the ledge. They swapped Appel for Fisher. Appel could bloom but so could Martes. With K and McK leading the rotation, they are still going to have one of the better ones for the next few years. I was disappointed in Appel in the minors, but still wanted to see him in the bullpen (VV too). Giles will make up for that, who is only a year older than Appel, has had success under in the league already, and under control for many years. The Astros FO deserves the benefit of the doubt imo.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/MAppel26">@MAppel26</a> sad to leave the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Astros?src=hash">#Astros</a> organization but at the same time sees the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Phillies?src=hash">#Phillies</a> as a great opportunity." <a href="https://t.co/jhnBY1G0mX">pic.twitter.com/jhnBY1G0mX</a></p>— Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26) <a href="https://twitter.com/MarkBermanFox26/status/675751536413151233">December 12, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I'm okay with it assuming that the scouting report on Giles is as good as it seems. I won't pretend to be a minor league talent expert but I think a lot of people are assuming that Appel was still among our top few prospects, and I don't think that's the case anymore given the way he has performed. Oberholtzer may end up being a decent #4 or 5 starter. VV will tip the scales on this trade in either direction IMO, if he pans out and stays healthy this could look bad for us. But, that's the price you pay and I'm fine with it given our farm system. You simply have to give up more potential to get more proven talent.
I am not looking for your response, good or bad. I don't care about your opinion about me, I am not trying to rile you or anyone else. I am irritated by the move. Can't understand how others are not frustrated in gutting the top talents in the minors. I get who you are. You are a person who sides with an anonymous poster who insults another with crude language. Maybe he or she will admit you to their cool club. Y'all can kiss and be the type of friend who deserve each other
My guess is VV's arm explodes in under 2 years. Astros most absolutely love Giles. Appel probably could be a setup man now.
I just hope the trade wasn't changed because of Fisher failing his physical for something we don't know about yet
No kidding. November 3, 2003: The Houston Astros traded Billy Wagner to the Philadelphia Phillies for Ezequiel Astacio, Taylor Buchholz and Brandon Duckworth. November 7, 2007: The Houston Astros traded Eric Bruntlett and Brad Lidge to the Philadelphia Phillies for Michael Bourn, Mike Costanzo and Geoff Geary. July 29, 2010: The Houston Astros traded Roy Oswalt to the Philadelphia Phillies for Anthony Gose, J.A. Happ and Jonathan Villar. July 29, 2011: The Houston Astros traded Hunter Pence and cash to the Philadelphia Phillies for a player to be named later, Jarred Cosart, Jon Singleton and Josh Zeid. The Philadelphia Phillies sent Domingo Santana (August 15, 2011) to the Houston Astros to complete the trade. December 12, 2015: The Houston Astros traded Vincent Velasquez, Mark Appel, Thomas Eshelman, Harold Arauz and Brett Oberholtzer to the Philadelphia Phillies for Ken Giles and Jonathan Arauz. They didn't need one. They had one. Paid premium for a harder throwing one. Lusenow continues to lose on the trade front. Maybe he should considering paying premium for 1B or 3B. Nope, we're going with Lulz Valbuena and Jon "I make Chris Carter look good" Singleton.
Personally, I wish we had kept Fisher in the trade rather than Appel, simply due to the amount of young OFs we have in our system. However, we've got Rasmus & Gomez for only 1 more year, and who knows if we'll be able to afford Springer? Dallas & Correa are your absolute must signs in the future, and it's unlikely the Astros pay 3x $200 MM contracts, so keeping Cameron, 2x Tuckers, Marisnick, and Fisher is vital. Our OF could go from the team's strength to a glaring weakness in just 1 season, unless we have young kids ready to step up. If we can re-sign Kaz, our rotation won't have many openings for the next 2-4 years - Lunhow can work his magic in the meantime to find a young SP to insert into the rotation.
Vince forget about little beard, he is the worse in this forum, and does not give much information, he will only be a forum police dude, asking others not to answer other poster, no insight on this great game and is just a waste of your time. If you are mad about something, you have the right to express yourself, ignore little guys that whine about every forum members that express in a different way. The little dude needs to get a life.
Props to this poster, he is a class act. I respect this response. Rep this guy, represents quality human beings I am still shocked and disappointed. Not happy with the move, but what is done is done
Based on? Guys who have a run of good health as he has over the last 2 years (after coming off multiple surgeries) actually end up doing fine. My guess is that he's not going to be a starter without a better variety of off-speed stuff, and he'll need better control to be a force in the bullpen (but certainly has the stuff for it).
Appel's value as of now was terrible... the only hope was that he put it together for the Astros (presumably starting off in the bullpen).
Nick Thoughts on the overall trade now? Too much for a guy who will have around 60 IP during the year? I think this was a desperate move. He has a lot of pressure to be a lights out closer.
Take your poo-pooing elsewhere, please. It's not only about the Gregerson upgrade. It's about the Neshek & Will Harris upgrade. We lost a number of games down the stretch due to a thin bullpen and weak set-up men. Look at the numbers below. Neshek to Gregerson is a MAJOR upgrade! And Gregerson to Giles, in terms of ERA, is huge as well - i.e. Gregerson was getting guys on and they were scoring, whereas Giles was getting guys on and they were being left stranded. With our Rotation and Bullpen, we don't need a dominant offense. Ken Giles 2015: 2.03 ERA v Right Handed Hitters, 1.50 ERA v LH, .219 BAA, 1.2 WHIP, 70 IP Gregerson 2015: 3.45 ERA v Right Handed Hitters, 2.78 ERA v LH, .213 BAA, 1 WHIP, 61 IP Neshek 2015: 4.05 ERA v Right Handed Hitters, 3.38 ERA v LH, .240 BAA, 1.1 WHIP, 55 IP
2014, I believe he missed some time. Maybe 5 or so starts. Deal looks too good for Phillies and VV seems the one most likely to have a concern physically downgrading his value. Just a guess.
My opinion doesn't change simply due to the addition of Appel and taking out Fisher. I do think they sold low on Appel... but there's no guarantee his value was going to go higher unless he somehow showed he could get MLB hitters out (and you don't get a chance to figure that out till the season actually starts). If its a 1 year rental, maybe its desperate... but they're still trading for a 25 year old MLB pitcher with tremendous stuff who's already shown ability to succeed at the MLB level. By contrast, Appel is a 24 year old minor leaguer who isn't necessarily lighting it up at each of his stops.
