<BREAKING> Active Shooter in San Bernardino, California

Hello Bobby, thanks for posting.

Once you finish your senior year and get to college, I highly suggest you enroll in a statistics class and start looking into what statistics are and how they work, as well as logical fallacies.

The homicide rate in France is .22 per 100,000 people.

The homicide rate in the US is 3.55 per 100,000 people.

As you know France has high gun control laws, whereas the US has low gun control laws. As you can plainly see, the US, due to its lax gun laws has about 14x more gun deaths, per capita.

So, your premise that the gun control laws have "meant nothing to those who would do harm", is false. What you have done is utilized what is known as an annectdotal fallacy, in which is described as the following:

Please be careful Bobby. There are alot of nefarious people out there who specifically target low educated persons, such as yourself, and try to recruit you into believing nonsense like this, for their own ends.

 

I broke my own Bobby rule. Thanks lars. +1

 

Look, I'm certainly not in favor of the way a lot of gun control laws are executed. The ignoramuses that wrote them didn't know what the hell they were banning when they included many of the terms and guns they did in the laws that have been proposed.

But even they didn't think that any gun control laws would keep all gun violence from happening. Nobody does.

The idea is that it will reduce it. Because of the way most gun control laws are written, I'm against most gun control laws. But I'm not against certain measures of gun control.

If we look at gun violence in France vs. in places like the U.S. it's much lower even with the recent attack.

You are guilty of what I find fault with with many of the attempts at gun control. You are focusing on one mass shooting. Mass shootings even as prevalent as they've become aren't the leading cause of gun violence. Focusing on aspect of gun violence and using it as a reason to enact or not enact gun control isn't really helpful either in the pro-gun control ideology or the anti-gun control ideology.

 

On the other hand, the U.S. has the most gun deaths by far and plenty of mass shootings. Maybe the concept of being safe from crime is a moot point.

The 2nd Amendment issue of state militias v. federal army is much more interesting. . . . But I don't think there's any objective way to claim that the U.S. is safer than other countries due to all our gun ownership.

 

Thanks for the effort and the misplaced condescension. At some point you might have heard that correlation does not equal causation. Try to figure out what that means and get back to me.

Also, what I did was not an example of an anecdotal fallacy, I was merely stating a fact that gun control measures do not stop those intending to harm people with guns, it was not based on anecdote. Laws, as you might learn once you grow up, only affect those who would abide by them in the first place. Banning alcohol didn't rid society of it. All you do when you ban something that there is a demand for is create a black market that is non regulated...which makes matters worse.

 

I just need to get one thing straight real quick.

So the people who jumped on liberals for jumping to conclusions about the motives are now perfectly justified in jumping to conclusions about the motive?

 

That was certainly the case with alcohol, but it wasn't the case with guns in plenty of places where they have much less mass shootings after their gun control laws went into effect.

 

sometimes correlation does equal causation, you would have to have the CDC study the issue in this case to know, but the NRA and GOP block them from doing that so , could be maybe not.

 

I'm not against all gun control measures, I just get annoyed about the knee jerk "WE NEEDS GUN CONTROL" BS that happens every time there is an incident.

The main problem is that those who REALLY want gun control want a repeal of the 2nd amendment and an outright ban of firearms. I reject opinions by these people outright and there is not really any room for middle ground with extremists like that. It would be the same if I was trying to talk to someone who was an extremist the other way.

I do understand that mass shootings are only a tiny blip on the radar of gun violence as a whole, I also understand that some gun control measures might help that out a little bit, but the major issue is the "why" when it comes to gun violence. I don't blame the tool a person uses so much as I blame the person that wanted to kill others. Why do so many Americans want to kill people? IMO that's what is relevant. You don't find that kind of culture in any other civilized nation, so why is it present here? I don't think 100% of it is related to mental health, but that certainly is part of it.

Either way, the real causes and solutions to gun violence are rarely talked about in these discussions, most of the time is dedicated to those calling for gun bans and that is unfortunate.

The second amendment has nothing to do with a state run militia or a federal army. The second amendment grants an individual right and you know it, so let's not even go down that path.

 

Well I don't think it was right to jump to conclusions but by now it's pretty clear what the motivation was. We know that the two shooters were devout Muslims and we know that they had conversations with known terrorists and that they researched ISIS. At this point, it's no longer jumping to any conclusions.

 

Yeah, I think we're probably much closer together than we are apart on the issue of gun control.

 

Oh young pup, I know exactly what correlation vs causation is. Lets pretend for a moment that your utterly idiotic and absurd position has some merit. Please enlighten us as to what is ACTUALLY causing the difference in gun deaths, per capita, between these two countries, if not the blatantly obvious gun control laws.

Sweet Bobby, you stated no facts. What you stated is called an opinion. You can tell because it is not backed by anything factual. And your opinion, was clearly built on an anecdotal fallacy. The anecdote, in this scenario, being mass shootings, while ignoring all the data.

Oh I agree. That's why the intellectuals propose something called "common sense gun control". You see, young Bobby, when folks show a history of not wanting to abide by the law, we have something called a criminal record. And part of this "common sense" is not allow people access to guns who don't like to follow our laws.

My goodness, you love your anecdotes!

 

Yes, this is certainly shaping up as yet another case of Muslim extremist killing people.

 

Do you think it is likely that it will emerge that this couple were Mormon terrorists?

Can you explain why you think it means "jumping to conclusions" to think it is quite likely that they had an Islamist motive?

 

You've proven yourself to be something of a fool, so I'll leave it at this, would "common sense gun control" have prevented the shooting in San Bernadino? Of course not. So pushing for that in this thread, even if it is a good idea overall, is a bit misplaced wouldn't you agree?

Of course it doesn't matter if you agree or not. You are what you are. I'm usually pretty good when it comes to dealing with idiots like you, but it's just ridiculous when someone as limited as yourself tries to be condescending.

 

Of course you will leave with some stupid and pointless take away.

You have been completely and utterly dismantled in this conversation and you have absolutely nothing to stand on. That is what happens when stand against common sense Bobby.

 

It's adorable that you think so. Have a good day.

 

Terrible violence that should be condemned wholeheartedly.

I'm just going to leave these here, in the interest of debating by aggregate rather than by anecdote as I have seen some people in this thread do.

 

You know, I have never been much of a gun person. I own an old hunting rifle I haven't really used in 20+ years and a .22 rifle my dad gave me when I was a child. I did teach my children to shoot properly but other than that I have never been a gun person yet I have always been in favor of the 2nd amendment. Looking at the idiots out there now, I think it is time to finally buy a handgun and get my license, if for no other reason than to piss off stupid liberals.

 

glhf!