Harden says he plays too much to maintain defensive focus

Part of it is isolating him so much, that does take a toll on a player especially the way he plays. His usage rate has to be one of the highest if not the highest in the league. What was supposed to be done is getting him to score off the ball more but that hasn't happened whether it was coaching or Harden abandoning that plan but that needs to get corrected ASAP.

 

I've never understood this argument to begin with.

I don't even know where to begin. First of all, you're a professional athlete getting paid pretty handsomely. It's YOUR JOB to be in shape and ready to play 40 minutes at a high-level on both ends, especially as a max player. And it's not exactly like you're playing 40 CONSECUTIVE minutes either. You've got full timeouts, 20-second timeouts, quarter breaks, halftime, dead balls, free throws, your usual rest, etc. etc. etc. to get your wind back.

As it relates to James, this is even more laughable. I think he literally STANDS on defense more than he actually tries to defend. He'll take every opportunity to switch a screen rather than fighting over it. And on the offensive end, it's not exactly like he's "working hard" to get open when he's off the ball...if he doesn't have the ball, he's either STANDING still or trying to post his man on the high post, which isn't exactly working hard either. And he also doesn't sprint from end to end in transition...I'd say it's more of a jog or a trot, with our without the ball. So 40 mins a night or not, how is any of that tiring?

So where exactly is he expending all of his energy? In isos trying to shake his man with endless between-the-leg dribbles? Flailing and flopping trying to draw fouls? Hooking his man's arm, holding on and acting like you've been hit by a bomb?

I mean seriously....wtf.

 

Exactly why JB needs to give Lawson the green light to play PG.

Coach needs to demand that the ball run through Ty instead of James.
Ty is primary playmaker (giving James a break on O instead of ISO ball)
James can shoot or slash if Ty dishes to him.

Gets Ty more involved, C more involved (P&R). James gets a rest.
We need Ty to break down defenders and wreak havoc in the lane.

So far he seems hesitant or uncertain about his role.
Coach needs to clarify and demand.
It's worth a try.

Right now James ISO is our offense and everyone else stands around.
Very predictable.

 

A lot of this is tied into poor transition defense and poor transition offense.

1) The Rockets can't defend (and rebound) so they aren't getting stops to get their transition offense. (BTW, the Rockets offense NEEDS transition points to win games. To me, transition points should be looked at as a 'value add' and not core).

2) The Rockets offense is predictable, shots are missed and lead to transition points the other way.

Both of those items compound each other.

 

We all agree that Harden needs to return to last year's effort. I don't get what your argument is comparing him to Butler.

Are you saying that he should still play 40 mpg? Are you saying Harden is wrong when he said he needs to play less.

Harden and many of us here are saying we need to try him at Westbrook minutes (34.5 mpg). Are you saying we shouldn't?

And fwiw, Butler said last year that his defensive effectiveness was being affected by his new offensive workload. Butler said that.

 

i am not sure and i dont care if you're making excuses for him. but there are holes in your arguments.

in the past, "since everyone played more minutes so everyone was also tired equally -- it balances out"? not necessarily. for example, in 13-14 season, both melo and butler played the same minutes. i'd say melo's 38.7mpg wasnt an equal load to butler's 38.7, and they were not "tired equally". and i bet you a dollar that in 05-06 season, ai's 43.1mpg had a lot more "tiring" effect compared to ricky davis' 41.1. just some random examples.

also, how's playing 3-5 extra mpg becomes the reason harden's defense has been atrocious most of the time? still cant get that one.

oh, please dont forget to answer the question i asked earlier - if so many players in the past all could play more minutes than what harden is playing this yr, and still be effective on both ends of the court, why cant harden now?
(hint: harden usually doesnt guard opponent's best player)

 

Exactly, I mean there's no excuse when you're the 382nd ranked defensively ranked in the entire league and you want to be considered an MVP, that's a joke. Last time I checked in basketball you have to play both ends of the floor, it's not like football where you can only play one side of the ball. The Rockets won games last season because their defense was pretty stout which led to easy pts on offense. I don't like this whole "Woe is me" attitude from Harden, yeah guys are not hitting shots but that doesn't absolve you from not trying on defense.

Gifting the other team easy buckets time after time only makes things more difficult on offense because you have the pressure to keep scoring at a higher clip which leads to Harden playing more mins. , so in retrospect not playing defense is one of the reasons why he's playing such heavy mins.

 

It's actually 3-7 mpg less for most offensive stars. That likely translates to 7-16 minutes per game of rest time. That's what other offensive stars are getting in rest time vs Harden.

• Are you saying we should leave Harden out there when the opposing team sits their offensive star? Why?
• Are you saying Harden should play 40 mpg, when most everyone else is between 33-36 mpg. There's like only 3 offensive stars between 36-37 this year and last.
• Are you saying he is wrong that he should play the same as all other offensive stars?
• Do you know Butler said he defense suffered last year, because of his new offensive load.
• Do you know Butler wasn't the offensive player he is now in the 2013-14 stat you gave wrt Melo vs Butler, scoring only 13 ppg. He was still largely a defensive specialist.
• Did you not see that the NBA made the drastic change to less minutes last year and this year, not 2014, yet, likely because of the new analytics.
• Did you not see that the NBA made the drastic change to less minutes last year and this year, not 2014, yet, likely because of the new analytics.

ibm, sometimes it's OK to find common ground with other posters, especially when I was saying "such and such is arguably true." You don't have to fight to the bitter end in a polarizing manner.

 

I'm a huge believer in harden but this quote from him was awful I must say.

With that said he is asked to do more on offense then any player in the league, ty was supposed to help hopefully we see more of him also dmo will help a lot.

He was a good defender in okc and was severely underrated last year on that end. But he's taking it to new lows this year.

His big strong with super long arms with pretty good athletism no reason to be this bad.

 

I watch a lot of bulls games this year on my league pass butler def gets killed in Blackfoot cuts by his man atleast one or twice a game. The league just exploits harden for this because of some Lin fan made that lowlight reel of him 2 years ago. It sucks but Harden has to own it and be better.

 

good luck with harden doing that, just trade harden

 

sigh, ... one era everyone plays >37 mpg, with many at or above 40 mpg. In another era, no one plays more than 37 mpg.

Harden deserves no excuses for playing horrendous defense prior to JB, especially vs last year. But to help him get back to given his best effort, we need to get him down to the minutes that everyone else plays in the NBA; otherwise those other players will be fresher. Don't see how that's not an answer to your question which I already gave.

 

i asked you a question first, and yet you threw me back a bunch more. hehe. good ol' convincing debate strategy.

"the game has changed", "past stats are irrelevant" (how convenient),,, this whole afternoon, the entire argument of yours in this thread was that harden's current 39.7mpg is more "tiring" than ai's 43.1 or shaq's 40, am i right? (btw i dont buy this argument - if that's ok with you.)

and are you implying the above explains why harden's d sucks so much? i am not sure and honestly dont care. let's just say you were indeed not seeking excuses for him...

 

this kid needs to get some offseason work with lebron and KD and get his stamina up. The REAL superstars play big minutes and are CONSISTENT on offense and defense.

 

No I'm not implying that ... you are just trying to polarize the argument into what you want it to be.

Good luck answering any of my questions. But you should give it a try.

 

Morey needs to rebuild this terrible team.

Yea, harden gives close to 0 effort on D but he, himself, thinks that its not his fault when he has to carry the offense every game for 40mpg.

 

He thinks he's giving his all on both ends of the floor? Sort of totally embraced that superstar loser role.

 

Harden needs a PR guy.

 

so? is harden's 39.7 more "tiring" than shaq's 40? no way.

politically correct. i will give you that.

way to cuddle our "leader". hehe.




tbh, i suspect harden was just sending a message to jbb that he doesnt want to play that many minutes no more. that's all there is to it.
i'd expect to see his minutes cut a little, starting tonight.

 

You're trying to go for the proper response (criticize him while seeing his POV) which would right in most instances...and I would have been inclined to agree with a bit of it if Harden hadn't come out and said this to media publicly. That is just a weak ass loser's mentality that shows every other team out there that he is easy prey for wolves. Regardless of what you want you don't come out say it...its just his b**** ass mentality.

To counter your point of lowering his minutes...the dude did not train this summer...partied it up towards the end of last season and hasn't been taking care of his body. He gets paid millions to do that at least. If he had been a bit more disciplined there is no doubt in my mind he wouldn't just stand still watching someone make a layup. I mean, how much extra energy does it take to stand in the guys way with a couple of steps? That play in the detroit game was disgusting.