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Andre Drummond: finally a true big man?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by OTMax, Nov 7, 2015.

  1. Major

    Major Member

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    So, because he'll miss 1 more free throw every 5 times he's fouled in crunch time, he'll go to the bench vs Shaq who completely dominated the league?

    None of this is true if you understand math.
     
  2. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    Clutchfans wouldn't be what it is without basketballholic. Truly amazing stuff.
     
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  3. dmoneybangbang

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    Canaan by a mile!
     
  4. basketballholic

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    It is true when you understand NBA math.

    A team cannot win a championship with their primary roller/finisher shooting 40% from the free throw line.
     
  5. val_modus

    val_modus Member

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    What is your logic (if any) in discerning how much playing time (half of total pt in your example) a player loses due to a 10% difference in free throw shooting? I'm still leaving the possibility of you trolling in that post so U apologize if I misinterpreted.
     
  6. Harden2Capela

    Harden2Capela Member

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    i would trade dwight plus t.jones for him right now
     
  7. King1

    King1 Member

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    There's no question that was an issue. I'm simply discussing his start to this season. I know it's a small sample size but he's clearly a different player. Most importantly he is trying to take a leadership role and taking accountability which were things he did not do in his first two seasons. Look no further then his tweet last night after the loss. He has put in the extra time in the summer and has at practice as well so far. The results are there. I think it continues. to call him a role player though is ridiculous. They were joking he had an "off game" with 14 and 15 last night. 2 blocks and 2 steals too.
     
  8. Snow Villiers

    Snow Villiers Member

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    Turrible, simply turrible.
     
  9. marky :)

    marky :) Member

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    NBA math?

    Is that like Drexler math and where shooting 40% from 3 is making 1 out of 2 three point attemps?
     
  10. basketballholic

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    Watch the playoffs from last season. When teams go into foul mode on bigs that can't hit free throws, the big has to sit down. The games are too tight and when a team can waste their opponent's offensive possessions by dilluting their efficiency and denying them the break they wrest the momentum and it kills their opponent......slowly. Just like ingesting poison. Especially if the opponent is built to defend, force turnovers and bad shots, and their offense is predicated on getting into break mode and is not nearly as efficient in half-court mode.

    I assure you I'm not trolling. I also assure you I don't care that you think I'm trolling. I'm simply bringing the facts to you. Holler troll all you want. I don't care. The facts speak for themselves. Pull the data for yourself. Has any team ever won a championship shooting below 67% from the FT line as a team??? (Hint: No.) Detroit is currently below 63% mainly because of Drummond's 40%.

    There's been maybe 3-6 teams max that have won an NBA championship shooting below 70% from the FT line. (I can't remember the exact figures right now and I ain't gonna waste time looking it up again. But it's precious few.) And several of those teams were the Shaq-led Lakers teams with Kobe. And Shaq was a tremendous difference-maker on the defensive end, along with being a post-up, clock-chewing, possession-chewing MACHINE in the low blocks who had great court vision out of the post, and enough sense to be able to feel the doubles coming and find the wide open cutters/shooters. And he did hit 1 out of 2 at the line so even though he wasn't as efficient at the line, he was barely efficient enough to be able to stay in the game and wreak havoc.

    None of that is Drummond. Drummond is a pick-and-roller. Granted SVG is trying to make him a post-up guy. But at this stage of Drummond's career it's a case of the wrong emphasis. He should be kept in pick-and-roll ONLY until he learns to shoot free throws. Because post-ups are simply an excuse for the defense to take a rest and then foul him later in the shot clock and stick him on the line for the misses. It's counter-productive. Even if he becomes a great post-up player it's meaningless because the defender can simply hack him and put him on the FT line and water down all his offensive efficiency.

    When players cannot make 1 out of 2 from the line, they become a defensive target.

    Once again, it hasn't sunk in yet. Drummond is a forty percenter at the line. That means he's less efficient from the FT line than a good chunk of the league is at taking long 2's. And long 2's are the worst shot to take in basketball....unless you can get Drummond and other forty percenters on the line.

    Now....what does this allow defenses to do? Double Drummond???? What for? Just overplay the other 4 guys, make them scramble, play the passing lanes, overplay on Jackson on the drive, and cut him off. And if Drummond catches the ball, simple wrap him up as often as possible and stick him on the FT line. The result? More rsteals, turnovers, and bad shots forced by the defense, less of the most efficient offensive possessions which is the ball handler throwing the ball up for Drummond to cram, and the vast majority of those high efficiency possessions replaced by Drummond clanking at the FT line in a fashion worse than Juwan Howard shooting that awful, awful 20 footer that he shot all the time and could only hit at 43%.

    40% at the line is an excuse for the defense to get 18 fouls out of the 11th, 12th, and 13th men on the active roster, and rest some of their premier rotation players until the opponent gives in and moves the forty percenter to the bench. Then the regular rotation can come in and wipe the floor with an opponent whose best rebounder/finisher is buried on the pine because he can't hit his freebies.

    You cannot win a championship with your premier picker/roller/finisher shooting 40% at the FT line. Drummond is fools gold until he can get his FT% to or above 55%.
     
    #90 basketballholic, Nov 10, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015
  11. basketballholic

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    Right now, with their respective salaries, Drummond is much better for a team.

    But next summer somebody is going to pay Drummond around $20+ million for his roster slot, which will represent around 22% of their cap space. Canaan is much more likely to still be on a minimum salary deal....looking for his payday in the future. If Drummond hasn't exhibited that he's a better FT shooter to the tune of 55% minimum....then his contract could turn into a lead anchor. And in that scenario....a team would be much better off with Canaan on a minimum deal than a boat anchor contract of a player that has to ride the pine in winning time.
     
  12. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title

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    Need I remind you of the jopat coin flip conversation?

    #NBAmath
     
  13. T-macsterful1

    T-macsterful1 Member

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    I don't like this either. The comparison makes it seem like the only difference between shaq and drummond is 10% freethrow shooting.

    Shaq was a guy who had a hook with both hands, could spin either way and was a sure fire post threat. Shaq's ability to make 10% more freethrows is not why he was more playable it was that every freethrow was the result of 2+1 lol.

    bad example and poor freethrow shooting isn't the only thing holding drummond back but he's still so young that he could really develop.
     
  14. basketballholic

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    This was my point. I was saying that Andris Drummond is nowhere near the player defensively and offensively that Shaq was. Yet, Shaq still struggled with his FTs to the point where he was removed from games later in his career because he was a liability at the FT line. Andris Drummond isn't nearly as effective on either end of the court as Shaq was and he's shooting 80% of what Shaq shot at the line. That's how bad he is. You can't win a championship as the premier picker/roller/finisher for your team shooting 40% from the FT line.


    The real kicker is Andris Drummond does not have the mentality that Shaq had, that determined mindset that nothing was going to stop him, that even if the opponent sent him to the line 30 times he was going to win the game. Andris Drummond does not have that mentality and never will have it. He does not have Shaq's killer instinct.

    I used Shaq as a comparison since many posters here think Andris Drummond is going to be this true big man. I've got better, more applicable comparisons to use (hint hint) if I have to.
     
    #94 basketballholic, Nov 10, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015
  15. King1

    King1 Member

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    I'm now convinced you are missing a chromosome and likely post wearing a helmet.
     
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  16. Cashmoney

    Cashmoney Member

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    You bring some great thoughts to the board and I love your work but...

    Bruuuuh.
     
  17. malakas

    malakas Member

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    One year later and the same issues again. Disinterest and ends up getting benched for most of the second half. SVG publicly called him out. .
     
  18. AvgJoe

    AvgJoe Member

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    You should have waited 8 more days for this comment.
     
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  19. Pen15clubber

    Pen15clubber Member

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    Lmao reading through this thread it honestly would be ****ing exhausting to be bbhollic
     
  20. don grahamleone

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    Isn't clubbing the ole pen number 15 exhausting too? At least at some point it must...
     

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