No, like a child psychologist or counselor specifcally trained for behavioral issues and not a history teacher with a class to teach.. I didn't see a principal in that room or a counselor. What did you see in that room? I didn't see them try to isolate the girl from the rest of the class. Hell even just picking up the desk and sitting her in the hall and having someone talk to her. Anything but a cop going 0 to 100 in three seconds. Odds are all of this could have been avoided far before this point but cop just doing his job! Derp. And hey, how about having an established policy that doesn't involve slamming kids to the ground and arresting them? How about moving that class to the cafeteria or auditorium and then having someone talk with the child. These are kids, not convicts.
So you think she would've sat there past the time the bell rang? Once class is out, she's not allowed back in until you talk with a parent, but it's cool that some people keep justifying this stuff from cops, until people start retaliating. No child should be dealt with in that manner. I've worked in a school over this past year, several actually, and I've never seen staff have to go to those lengths before.
A child psychologist doesn't sound very practical given the circumstances. A counselor maybe, but you're not moving much further past a teacher/principal in that instance. The (or at least one of) principal was there. As I've pointed out numerous times that was the one thing they didn't do that probably could have helped the situation. That failure, once again, was moreso on the shoulders of the staff. Also not very practical, at least not without two of those massively oversized cops everyone keeps talking about. Reports say he was respectful and calm and asked her to move multiple times. When the time comes to use force, you're supposed to act as swiftly as possible, for your safety and theirs. Your lack of understanding about the responsibilities of the police in this situation is not my problem. Also, one has nothing to do with the other. Derp. Sorry, but continued editorializing on what happened isn't making any impressions on me. Like Duncan said, the cop used the minimum amount of force required to remove her from the classroom. You can keep painting it with as much flowery language trying to oversell the idea of brutality, but the video doesn't back it up. This is my main problem with your posts. You put all of this on the cop and are working overtime to characterize their actions when in reality things did not play out as you say, and the cop is not nearly as culpable as you imagine. Monday morning QB for sure. Maybe there was no where else to go, etc. Once again, a call for the staff to make, not the cop. He did what was required to remove the student (and their removal was justified) with minimal force after repeatedly attempting to resolve the situation peacefully. No problem with him. Was there a better resolution to be had? Yes. Was the student entitled to that happy peaceful "let me sit in a room alone with a counselor while I talk out my problems and disrupt the entire class/school" ending? Not in my opinion, but we can respectfully differ on that.
I think it's justified when needed, but I hope that it's not. If it is needed, the amount of force should be as minimal as it can to match the situation. A child psychologist is likely not at every school, but we can use a counselor in our example. We don't know what methods were tried, or how long the disruption lasted before the officer was called. Ideally, a counselor should come in to talk to the student, and ask to speak about any issues in the hallway/office. If that doesn't work and the student stays in her seat, she should be removed. Clearing the classroom temporarily for other student's safety might be best prior to removing the student, but you can't displace a teacher and a whole classroom for one student. Dragging the desk out to the hall would end up exactly the same as taking the student out. For this girl, she seems like she would've fought being dragged out in the desk as well. It's a lose-lose situation when a violent student like her is involved.
It's really an interesting argument because not cooperating with the police is the primary crux of civil disobedience used by the civil rights movement, Gandhi, and many other groups to cause change and fight oppression. One should not risk severe bodily harm for non-violent resistance.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...na-student-punching-officer-n452481?cid=sm_fb Not that I expect them to say "yeah, we should've handled that differently", but the teacher and principal claim the force used was appropriate, so it doesn't appear he acted rogue. I'd like to see the heat turned up on them, personally. They're conspicuously absent from this story so far.
ROTC guys, off-season coaches and having a bunch of Bernie Caseys teach typing or civics and then bounce the commons the other six hours used to be enough.
When I was in high school, we were all well behaved. I don't recall ever seeing a physical altercation with a teacher, or police officer. Kids would get in trouble and sent to the principals office. Sometimes kids would get in a fight. But, we didn't do a lot of the things you see and hear about today. If a police officer or a teacher told us to do something, we would do it. I don't understand these people today who think it's a good idea to test the police or school personnel. Don't the parents of these people teach them anything? The cops sometimes lose their cool, and that's poor work on their part. But having to deal with these smart ass kids everyday must get old. I could never be a cop and have to deal with that crap everyday. Don't parents teach their children to respect their elders? How about teaching kids a few manners. These cops that can't handle doing this kind of work anymore need to find something else to do. But where do you find people to work as cops that are able to put up with people that haven't been raised right and just want to cause trouble for no reason?
I feel like posters "bobbythegreat" and "Bigtexx" are just joke accounts for bored people who like to argue all day. Their posts are sick, ridiculous, and verge on mentally ill. That being said, this kid was not treated or handled like a kid. It's oddly common that black kids are not seen as kids to some. This girl deserved detention, suspension likely but to be handled in this way is simply criminal. Cops are not gods, the punishment for not listening to a cop should not be to get choked and dragged across the floor as if you have a knife or gun and you are threatening someone's life. If we allow cops to beat up teenage girls with attitudes, young girls all over America would get their asses beat because newsflash teenagers are stupid and have attitudes. They should send a clear message by firing this guy enough is enough.
How is not getting out of the chair immediately violent? I think this is the gist of the problem when any noncompliance to an LEO is considered violence. I just rewatched the video and the LEO first takes her by the arm and when she doesn't stand immediately goes for her neck. As someone who teaches and performs choke holds for people untrained and unprepared that sort of move can induce a panic reaction. Her suddenly grabbing the LEO's arm is a natural reaction to a grasp on the neck and isn't an assault. Further with the neck hold the LEO takes her backward and since she is sitting in a desk it isn't surprising the desk goes with her. That isn't violence on her part trying not to get out of the desk but that is her being tangled in the desk. As soon as the LEO takes her by the neck backwards it is virtually impossible for her to get out of the desk on her own. That type of desk is designed to be entered and exited sideways.
My sister is a teacher in Aldine ISD, and she had a similar situation. Newer student, cussed at her, and wouldn't leave. So, she called for the school police, then she took the class and moved them to the auditorium and had the cop sit with the student for the remainder of the period. The student asked the cop at the end if he could join the class in the auditorium. I couldn't stop laughing.
Just saw this post. If this is your interpretation that she is resisting I can see how that might color your opinion. That said what you are describing here is practically a physical impossibility on her part. Especially in the second video it is very clear with the hold around her shoulder and neck that the LEO is pulling her backward with the natural reaction that her legs will stick out forward entangled in the desk. As I noted in the post above it is impossible for her to voluntarily exit the desk since the desk is designed to be entered and exited sideways not forwards or backwards. Also note the LEO is standing to the side where she would get out of the desk blocking that way to exit. Another factors is that the LEO's other hand can be seen under the seat of the desk helping to flip it over. From both those videos it seems more likely to me that the LEO intended to take her and the desk backward to the floor rather than her doing so while resisting. The only active resistance I can see on her part is when he takes arm and she doesn't immediately comply. That said it is less than a second from when he switches from holding her arm to going for her neck and shoulder.
I think we need more facts before making a judgement...but to the folks saying "should have just listened to the cop..." Are you guys serious? I'm sure they needed more of you at the Nuremberg trials. Following orders comes first and vindicates you of any moral responsibility.
The kid wasn't hurt, it looks like a case of something looking worse than it actually was. Of course if she just got up when the cop told her to she wouldn't have gotten rag dolled, but that was her choice. Some people just pick the hard way.
It's ridiculous that a high school student who is being disobedient - and NOTHING more..and in a way that is non-threatening to anyone, should be treated like a criminal. There was no need for the cop to escalate that situation as quickly as he did. She was not a suspect. She was a misbehaving high school student not listening to the teacher. What the cop did was reckless. She could have broken her neck being tossed over onto her head like that with the desk. I don't believe for one bit that a cop needs to approach situations and immediately respond with violence - especially to a non-threatening student. The cop could have called for back-up and emptied the room of students. First you talk them out, you call the parents. What he did should have been the very last resort and only if the situation called for it which in this case it did not.
She was a highschool student. Kids are known for making bad decisions and judgement calls. There is a reason you can get offenses committed under the age of 18 expunged. Your pre-frontal cortex is still developing up until your early 20s...I'm sure she'll look back on the situation and wish she'd done something differently...but it still doesn't warrant the use of excessive force. If we're going down that route...why not have parents beat their kids for not behaving either? She wasn't an immediate threat, so if we want her following directions and believe that excessive force is warranted to make her comply...her teachers/parents/school staff should also be given the right to beat her.
exactly. I forgot to mention the fact that she didn't get hurt...but EASILY could have right there. Nobody deserves to die or suffer paralysis other neurological deficits that could easily be brought on by trauma like that.
She hit the officer multiple times in the head, which technically counts as violence. Here's what I see when I watch the video. As soon as the officer grabs her arm, she pulls it away. Her stance is wide apart, feet outside the width of the desk to give her the best leverage to stay down. The officer grabs her thigh with the left hand to lift her leg up to break her stance. His right hand tries to go over the shoulder and the only thing he's able to hook is her neck - poor on his part, better if he could've grabbed cloth. Lifting her leg up causes her to stand and the desk raises while she's swinging with her right hand at the officer's face. The desk falls down and her momentum causes it to tip backwards. Her back is now on the ground for the officer to pull her out of the desk, but her legs are hooked in the desk until she becomes free of it, at which point the officer can cuff her. Let me pose another question: if you were interrupting a workplace meeting, should security be allowed to forcibly remove you?
There were several points at which this whole thing could have been stopped before reaching the point that it did. When the student violated the phone rule and then refused to follow the order to give up her phone, unless she was continuing to use it in a fashion that causes disruption-- and according to other students she was not-- the teacher could have just said "Fine, you get detention after school." There was no need to send her out of the class room right that minute. When the student refused to go, again, things could have been taken up later unless there was a compelling education reason for removing her. Let her sit there and talk to her after class. The teacher's focus should be in teaching the lesson, and getting the administrator, and later the cop involved was not useful toward that goal. It looks to me that the only reason to remove the girl from the classroom is the teacher, administrator and cop simply wanting her to "respect their authoritah!" and obey. And this is all before we get to the point of the cop using the kind of reckless move that would have gotten his ass fired from the WWE for endangering another wrestler.
