Lance Berkman campaigns against allowing boys into girls' bathrooms

I'm not against other solutions. I just don't like this particular ordinance.

Let me ask you this... what are transgendered people doing right now? Is there a big problem with transgendered people using the facilities right now with the laws the way they are?

 

Look at the story I posted earlier of the family and what they went through. To some of them, it greatly affect them and their families, especially those with transgender kids.

The other question to consider is... what are non-transgendered people doing right now in Cities and States that passed similar ordinances? Is there a problem with non-transgendered people using the facilities right now with the laws the way they are after passing similar ordinances?

Here is a list of them

Also consider the business impact. Business group are behind the Houston Equal Rights Ordinance. They have stated they are concern businesses would leave or chooses to go elsewhere if equal right is defeated.

 

I don't feel comfortable with a law that would force a transgender girl to get naked next to dozens of 45 year old men in the men's locker room.

If the ordinance passes, then it's taking into account the feelings of the majority. Civil rights are by nature going to carve out protections for the few, but it's not at expense of the many. Freedoms and laws for human dignity are not zero sum, as much as some (many) politicians want you to believe.

I find many of the arguments against the ordinance to be incredibly patronizing. Most women are not these delicate wilting lilies that will faint and become traumatized at the sight of male genitalia. Most men are not sex-craved perverts who are willing to dress up in drag just to stare creepily at girls in showers. Most women will have somewhere between 8-10 penises inside of them during their lifetimes; they'll most likely be way more intimately familiar with them than you are, and don't need your protection.

I'm sympathetic to the concerns of parents who want to protect their kids from everything. It's human nature to think of the worst case scenario, and do the quick calculus that "if it stays the way it is, it's better for me, if it changes, it could potentially be worse for me with no benefit". The law isn't going to open up the floodgates for old man creepers, Mrs. Robinsons, or sexual predators who weren't already going to try something, in the same way that there aren't hordes of people who don't smoke weed, but are ready to become potheads if it's legalized. There are many other areas throughout the country who have already passed similar ordinances and as far as I can tell, there haven't been any complaints or incidents. This imagined fear that the opponents are using is merely a boogeyman, about as true as the idea that James Harden doesn't get foul calls in the playoffs.

 

I haven't had a chance to read through this thread and am not familiar with this ordinance. I'm also a fan of Lance Berkman as a player. Him being a good baseball player for a team that I love doesn't mean that I think his voice on a matter not of baseball has any more sway than anyone else.

Regarding this issue. When I was 18 and was a college freshman my dorm had co-ed floors with co-ed bathrooms. As an 18 year old who had never lived apart from my parents I suddenly found myself sharing a bathroom with several other college students in their late teens. While it took some getting use to it we didn't have any problems other than college shenanigans. If anything having to deal with differences in genders in the bathroom might have made us better. It cut down on the juvenile locker room behavior that went on in the gender segregated locker rooms.

I can understand that this is a big social change for many and that many feel uncomfortable about the idea of sharing a locker room and bathroom with someone who isn't biologically the same gender. This though can be addressed through the norms of behavior and treating each other with respect. I find it odd that the Party of personal responsibility when it comes to matters like this and with homosexuals serving in the military continue to argue against the idea of personal responsibility. Instead they argue that people, particularly men, cannot control themselves to the point that they will pretend to be transgendered just so they can go into a woman's locker room or bathroom. Shouldn't the argument be that men should learn to control themselves?

 

I believe that times and sensibilities change. I have concerns about there being issues with the ordinance; overall I do believe that it is better for society as a whole if the ordinance is passed. Sometimes people need to step back and look at the issue from a wider spectrum. We need to be an inclusive world as long as it isn't overly harmful to others.

Concerning the idea that the attention should be put on men exercising self control, there will always be people that have deviant behavior. It isn't much different than the argument with guns and other topics in that regard.

 

As a parent, I don't bring this type of topic up. But if it comes up, I think it's a great teaching opportunity to be kind toward others and self and to closely examine your feelings, thoughts and assumptions.

 

I've learned from this thread that a lot of conservative men spend a lot of time thinking about dressing up in drag and watching women pee.

 

I think Judo and Hi Mana answered very well for me. To be clear, I know several transgender folks, and they simply want what the LGBT community wants. To be treated as equals and with respect. They don't ask that others "like" them for what they are, although they look forward to the day that others simply won't care about a person's gender. They simply want the same rights others have in this country. Heck, women in general still don't have all the rights that men have, certainly not the same equality. Considering how long gender equality has been fought for in this country, is still being fought for (check the pay women get in this country compared to men for equal work - it's still far from equal), they realize that it will be a long, hard struggle. Heck, you still have people like Bobby who toss around words like "mentally ill" to describe the transgender community, a totally bigoted and ignorant way of looking at them, with all due respect to Bobby. Where does his fear come from?

Equality is one of the key differences between countries like the United States and countries like Russia, for example. Putin's government promotes bigotry. Our nation should continue to fight to obtain equality for all our citizens. I'm old enough to recall seeing "Whites Only" signs on the doors of restrooms and the entrances to public pools at city parks in Houston. Change takes time, but change must take place... for everyone.

 

First off, it's insulting to compare this to the civil rights struggle. Dr. King is rolling over in his grave at the disrespect you have just dished at him.

Second, not all change is good. You simplistically try to make this inference, and it's wrong.

 

No, they don't want equality, they want special treatment. Equality would be saying that men use men's facilities women use women's facilities. If you have a penis, you aren't a woman even if you have a mental condition that makes you view yourself as a member of the opposite sex.

When I say that people suffering from transsexualism or gender dysphoria are "mentally ill" it's because they suffer with a gender identity disorder. It would be no different than talking about people suffering from other personality disorders. They are at times unfortunate, and they aren't anyone's fault, they just happen.

I understand wanting to play along with their delusions, but you simply can not expect everyone to do so. Those who have taken the extra step and have surgically mutilated their genitals probably wouldn't have any problems using the facilities of the opposite sex, but when you still have a penis....it's kind of asking a lot.

Now, this doesn't personally affect me and I don't mind if trannies want to use women's facilities so long as actual women don't mind, but if they do mind I think it's wrong. Also, making a blanket policy that any man who is feeling like a woman can walk in and use dressing rooms, showers, and restrooms that are supposed to be for women only is a bad policy. There's no way to prove if someone was feeling like a tranny or not at any given time so it would have to be just accepted in all instances which is stupid.

I get that it sucks to be a tranny, and that using the facilities of their actual sex might be a hit to delusions they live their life by, but it really isn't an equal rights issue.

 

Texans owner Bob McNair rescinds contribution to anti-HERO group

http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/...b-McNair-rescinds-contribution-to-6586869.php

 

Good on Bob. The smear/misinformation campaign run by the opposition group has been ridiculous enough to revoke any donation, let alone if they went out of their way to use him as propaganda.

 

So . . . . What's the point of having separate bathrooms at all?
Why not have unisex free for all bathrooms
Why not have an ordinance that says all bathrooms are now unisex?

Rocket River

 

It's the only way to have equal rights. All bathrooms, changing rooms, locker rooms, and showers must be unisex. Having certain facilities for just one sex is clearly the exact same as Jim Crow laws.

/thread

 

Funnily enough earlier in the thread a woman was arguing with you that it didn't bother her at all and yet you persisted.

I love this idea that transsexuals are going to go to the restroom and just whip it out for all to see. This will be so common that we regret it.

Instead of you know...going into a stall and using a restroom...a transsexual is going to just walk in there an whip it out and slang it all around.

Also of course you seem to be forgetting that a transsexual can walk into a bathroom now. The only difference is that you'd like to punish them for doing so.

For the people that want "Genitalia" assigned restrooms how exactly are you checking that again? People realize that some transgender people are damn convincing right? Those that have realized their situation as a kid usually, so when...



walks into a female restroom will bobby be there to check if they have a vagina or penis?

 

Yes, this has been a problem in all the states that have passed this right?

 

What gun? I will admit to not being familiar with this particular proposal but it is it mandating that people get shot?

Hyperbole much?

And once again what happened to being about personal responsibility? Are you saying that it is an impossibility for people to control themselves?
Men and women interact all the time and people of different sexual orientations do to. No one is saying that sexual harassment should be decriminalized and I doubt this ordinance does that.

 

Just from a few posts I've seen here it seems like they spend a lot of time thinking about penises.

 

Well, they don't call social conservatives "job creators" for nothing, amiright?

And I'm not even asking what kind of job -- HEY-OO!