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2015 and beyond: The Talent?

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by Rocket River, Oct 9, 2015.

  1. Ericstocracy

    Ericstocracy Member

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    Savage is IR'd with no return possible. He can't practice, let alone put on a jersey until OTAs next year.
     
  2. Ericstocracy

    Ericstocracy Member

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    Yep. It was a moronic decision to IR him for what essential was a roster spot for no one. His injury time table was predicting him to be able to practice by the end of week 6. They prematurely ended his season, in which it was instrumental for him to continue his development so he was that much more improved for next year.

    The leap he made this year alone from last was drastic. Even though he still needed a lot of work, he showed a ton of promise. They seriously stunted his growth with placing him on IR for no good reason.
     
  3. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Mohammed was also a dumb ir decision
     
  4. Mkieke

    Mkieke Member

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    Well in hindsight that seems like a terrible decision. Question though (note that my handle on NFL rules is poor): I thought pre-season IR allowed you to return post-Week 6? Did they simply leave Savage off of the 53 man roster in addition to placing him on IR? Ugh - that means drafting a QB is almost a certainty despite the number of holes we have elsewhere.

    I know we need a QB, but I've liked what I've seen thus far from Savage in his little regular season and preseason time. Was hoping he could get more experience and maybe solidify a spot as next year's starter.
     
  5. BubbaMac

    BubbaMac Contributing Member

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    What do you think was the reason for him to be put on IR? Any justifiable reason?
     
  6. Ericstocracy

    Ericstocracy Member

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    With the Texans usually being safe and not moving on from players prior to their complete collapse, I give you my best guess as to what this team will look like prior to the draft and FA signings. (Assuming that they keep their own key FAs first)

    Offense:

    QB - Hoyer & Savage
    RB - Foster, Blue, Prosch
    TE - CJ & Griffin
    WR - Hop, Shorts, Mumphery, Strong, Worthy
    T - Brown, Newton, Adams, Quessenberry
    G - XSF, Brooks, Aboushi
    C - Jones & Mancz

    Defense:

    DE/DT - Watt, Crick, Covington, & Pagan
    OLB - Clowney, Mercilus, & Cliett
    ILB - Cushing, McKinney, Tuggle, Bullough, & Peters
    CB - Kareem, JJo, KJo, Bouye, Morris, & Rolle
    S - Moore, Hal, Ballentine

    Special Teams:

    Lechler
    Weeks

    That's 42 players out of 53 roster spots. And if it were me running the team, a lot closer to 39 or 40 hold overs.

    If the season continues down the path that it currently is, I expect a top 5 pick in the draft next year. The Texans biggest need is QB, and by all means they need to do whatever it takes to get that 1st pick in the draft or at least ahead of other QB needy teams.

    Texans position needs ranked by importance:

    QB, DE/DT, OLB, S, CB, RB, TE

    You need starters at QB, DE/DT, OLB, S, and CB depending on moves.

    The Texans should hold a high draft position of their own in the first 4 rounds. In the 5th round they hold their own pick plus the Patriots for the Keshawn Martin trade. They have 0 6th round picks since they sent their own in the Martin trade too. They have 0 7th round picks as well. Having made the Mallet trade last year, they gave up a 7th for him considering he didn't meet the requirements for a conditional 6th. They also trade Keenum for the Rams 7th rounder in 2016, but traded that pick for Chris Clark in the pre-season.

    So as it sits now, these are the Texans current draft picks;

    1st
    2nd
    3rd
    4th
    5th
    5th

    They have shorter stack than usual coming up in next years draft. Usually have 7+ picks each year, they must make these 6 picks work. I could see trading back as a key to acquire additional picks, or player trades as well. But we all know how well that turns out with the Texans. If Rick Smith remains as the GM next year, I feel like his future will rest on how well he works that draft.

    It is clear that Free Agency will also hold a large role in filling voids within the roster.

    I haven't given the FA class a hard look yet, but there should be a lot of DE/DT FAs that the Texans should look at in shoring up the line.

    It's definitely going to take some magic to right this ship. It all depends on the Texans philosophy. Are they drafting a QB high and therefore rebuilding? Are they re-tooling the team to see if they can compete with Savage/Hoyer? It's all a guessing game, but what they should do in my and most of your eyes is clear.

    Go QB 1st round, figure everything else out after that.
     
  7. Ericstocracy

    Ericstocracy Member

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    It was pointless. They used his roster spot to keep Martin on the team, whom they traded away shortly there after to the Patriots. So they IR'd the guy to get a 5th round draft pick, over allowing him to get healthy and continue to develop.

    Piss poor judgment.
     
  8. Ericstocracy

    Ericstocracy Member

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    IR is IR no matter the point in the season the guy is placed there. You are referring to IR Designated to Return and each team has one singular spot for that. Once used you can't remove a guy and place another guy on it. It's a one time use only. They later used IR/Designated to Return on Ryan Griffin, which I felt wasn't necessary considering how little the TEs are being used anyway. It was a waste using it on him vs using it on Savage where you could at least give the guy some meaningful snaps if your QBs go up in smoke like they have.

    In the end, the 53rd player on this team is by no means more important than Savage. They should have kept him on the 53 man team. It was a major error on their part.
     
  9. Ericstocracy

    Ericstocracy Member

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    From what I've read and a few people I've spoken with, The injury was actually played down a lot. It ended up being more severe than expected, and full recovery this season wasn't guaranteed.

    All though Mohamed was saying he was close, He was only really close to begin practicing, where they would test his progress. Apparently the "strain" in his calf was more of a severe tear, than something as simple as a pulled muscle. And the likelihood of that soft tissue injury to reappear this season is highly.

    I don't think they felt that keeping his roster spot for an extended period of time was the right choice. Where he may not be ready until much later in the season.

    We really won't know until he catches on somewhere else and shows otherwise.

    They did end up replacing him with Brian Peters, a similar guy, but with potential to be much better in coverage considering he's a former safety.
     
  10. BubbaMac

    BubbaMac Contributing Member

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    If the Texans get a pick in the range of 5-10 and Goff has already been drafted, what do the Texans do? Probably too high to draft Cook and Hack but if they wait until round 2 to draft a QB, risk is that both are already gone. Seems like the Texans will draft best player available in the range of 5-10 and thus not draft a QB unless they reach.
     
  11. Ericstocracy

    Ericstocracy Member

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    The only elite QB prospect in the group is Goff. Cook is a tier bellow that, and everyone continues to fall bellow him. I don't even think about touching Hackenberg until round 2. Cardale Jones is playing so poorly against inferior opponents that he ranks as the 2nd worst QB against teams outside of the power 5. This QB group is starting to look very poor after Goff, and if I were in need of a QB, I'd sale the farm for him. Whatever it took.

    Your next group of QBs that could be impactful in the NFL are 2-3 years away after this draft. It is now or never for this regime.
     
  12. Ericstocracy

    Ericstocracy Member

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    I've been curious as to how each player on the team has been grading out so I took a look at PFFs system and saw a bunch of things that surprised me. I'll go ahead and list out each players rating on their scale of 1 - 100 and where they fall in line against their peers so you guys can get a feel as to the talent level of this team. The data is current to this weeks game as well.

    Now PFF is a great resource to have, but they aren't the end all be all. It's good information to have, but it doesn't tell the entire story.

    Their rating system is as follows:

    90 - 100 = Elite
    85 - 89 = Pro Bowler
    70 - 84 = Starter
    60 - 69 = Backup
    0 - 59 = Replaceable

    Offense -

    QBs:

    Mallet - 46.2 Overall grade out of 100. Rated 44th QB in the league. 269 snaps.
    Hoyer - 67.5 out of 100. 21st ranked QB. 144 snaps.
    Savage - No Ratings because he hasn't played a down.

    Equates to having one backup QB.

    RBs:

    Blue - 62.7 overall grade. 61st ranked RB. 120 snaps.
    Foster - 54.5 grade. 93rd ranked RB. (Clearly a limited rating based off of so few snaps, but the play was poor) 79 snaps.
    Grimes - 53.7 grade. 100th RB. 85 snaps.
    Polk - 50.1 rating. 110th RB. 121 snaps.

    I throw out Fosters grade because he's just getting back. The obvious is seen, you've got only one backup RB, and by a thin margin.

    FB:

    Prosch - 68.8 overall grade. 42nd ranked FB. (Slowly improving) 44 snaps.

    Just shy of a starter grade, I bank on him continuing his progress.

    TEs:

    CJ - 62.1 rating. 49th ranked TE. 196 snaps.
    Griffin - 57.7 rating. 68th ranked TE. 36 snaps.
    Graham - 43.2 rating. 102nd ranked TE. 207 snaps.

    1 backup and no starters.

    WRs:

    Hop - 83.8 rating out of 100. 12th best WR. 405 snaps.
    Worthy - 65.4 rating. 81st ranked WR. 45 snaps.
    Shorts - 55.5 rating. 118th ranked WR. 265 snaps.
    Washington - 53.7 rating. 136th ranked WR. 247 snaps.
    Mumphery - 48.5 rating. 161st ranked WR. 158 snaps.
    Strong - No rating due to limited snaps. 42 snaps.

    I near Pro Bowler and a backup. I give Mumphery some slack considering the leap he's making. Strong needs to see the field much sooner. Worthy is a nice suprise.

    Tackles:

    Brown - 78 rating. 19th best T. (Not bad considering injury and missed time) 232 snaps.
    Clark - 80.9 rating. 11th best T. (Very surprised with that) 186 snaps.
    Lamm - 72.5 rating. 32nd best T. (Not surprising when you see him often being a 6th lineman) 115 snaps.
    Newton - 37.5 overall rating. 90th ranked. (This is surprising and worrisome. If it continues, you have an issue at RT) 407 snaps.
    Adams - 70 rating. 36th ranked T. 119 snaps.

    4 starter graded Tackles is nice. Newton is a huge surprise, and I need to start watching his tape to see what's going on. Shouldn't be this bad with Brooks at his left.

    Guard:

    Brooks - 84.7 out of 100. 7th best G in the league. (Not surprising) 363 snaps.
    Mancz - 61.4 rating. 54th best G. (Pretty good for a UDFA rookie) 1 snap. lol
    XSF - 59.7 rating. 59th best G. (Needs playing time I feel) 22 snaps.
    Aboushi - 43.6 rating. 83rd ranked G. (Didn't notice his play being that bad, a bit shocking) 226 snaps.

    Brooks is on the cusp of being a Pro Bowler, and everyone seems bad. Sounds about right. I'm not counting Mancz's grade because it's 1 friggin snap. lol

    Center:

    Jones - 64.8 rating. 14th best Center. (Not bad considering it's his first year back at center) 413 snaps.

    A backup grade for Jones, even though his the 14th ranked center in the league. I bank on him improving, especially once he gets help to his left at LG.

    Defense-

    Interior Linemen:

    Watt - 90.7 out of 100. 2nd ranked lineman. (Donald is the only player better) 339 snaps.
    Wilfork - 72.9 rating. 53rd best. (Surprising, but his snap count has been shrinking because he's getting gassed, 218 snaps)
    Covington - 66.1 rating. 104th best lineman. Based on 45 snaps.
    Pagan - 54.9 rating. 152nd. Based on 31 snaps.
    Crick - 42.7 rating. 176th ranked. 319 snaps.

    Watt is obviously Elite. Wilfork being a surprise because I see a ton of snaps where he's making no difference. Covington is nice, should continue to grow and probably become a starter. Crick is worrisome. I really need to look at his tape like Newton. Not sure what's going on there.

    Edge Lineman/OLB:

    Clowney - 77.7 rating. 25th ranked. 234 snaps.
    Simon - 67 rating. 71st ranked. 199 snaps.
    Mercilus - 58.1 rating. 97th ranked. 184 snaps.

    Clowney would be higher graded if he pass rushed better, and I expect that to come as he knee continues to heal. Overall though, great job by him. Simon is what I was expecting. Plays the run well, not a pass rusher. Mercilus is where I thought he would be. Supposed pass rusher that can't get pressure and is bad against the run.

    ILB:

    Cushing - 78.1 rating. 11th ranked LB. 341 snaps.
    McKinney - 62.5 rating. 52nd ranked LB. 116 snaps.
    Dent - 60.1 rating. 71st rated LB. 88 snaps.
    Bullough - 60 rating. 75th ranked LB. 1 snap. lol
    Tuggle - 58.5 rating. 83rd ranked LB. 67 snaps.

    Cushing is a pleasant surprise. I've been b****ing about our speed here, but he's holding his own. McKinney needs to get it rolling soon, but at least he's grading better thean the other guys. Pretty spot on with Dent and Tuggle.

    CB:
    KJo - 73.2 rating. 56th best CB. 222 snaps.
    JJo - 71.1 rating. 63rd best CB. 282 snaps.
    Hal - 62.6 rating. 65th best CB. 59 snaps.
    Rolle - 60.4 rating. 91st best CB. 15 snaps.
    Bouye - 55.2 rating. 103 best CB. 56 snaps.
    Morris - 42.8 rating. 135th best CB. 44 snaps.
    Kareem - 38.9 rating. 145th best CB. 311 snaps. (My god, No wonder they're moving him to safety a lot as of late)

    KJo will probably end up being our CB1 at the start of next year. JJo just barely grading out as a starter when he used to be very highly touted just a few years ago. Hal and Rolle are what I would have expected, maybe better. Bouye is what I figured, but he's been primarily playing outside, where he's pretty bad. Much better slot CB. Morris is fast, but is rather small and can't play the ball. Kareem is scary bad. I know he has issue with his back to the qb, but my god. Make him a safety already please.

    Safety:

    Pleasant - 70.9 rating. 39th ranked S. 105 snaps. (Surprising, All I remember are his dumb penalties)
    Moore - 70.8 rating. 40th ranked S. 326 snaps. (He's been getting better as the season progresses)
    Demps - 58.7 rating. 86th best S. 235 snaps.
    Ballentine - Not rated. 1 snap.

    Safetys are in line with what I was feeling. Pleasant is a little higher than I expected, I feel like he hinders the team at certain points with his tendency to hold and grab. Moore should get better as the season progresses.

    Based on their ratings, That's a total of 14 players grading out as a starter or better. I'll add Foster to that considering his injury recovery. 15 guys. 14 rated as backup players. Another 12 graded out as replaceable.

    I would add maybe another 6 players that would potentially grade out as starters by seasons end. Maybe another 5-6 players grading out as backups at the end of it all.

    Adds up to about 41 out of 49 guys worth their roster spot, at least on the most minimum basis.

    Interesting to say the least. It doesn't tell the whole story, but it's pretty crazy how bad some guys are grading out. Especially key starters.
     
  13. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Yikes, that is brutal
     
  14. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    ^^^^

    It's really not that surprising. O'Brien is quickly proving to be a bad coach, and it's not surprising guys aren't performing under him. We are a poorly coached team with not enough talent to overcome that poor coaching.
     
  15. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Are you sure those WR grades are correct?

    This is the best WR corpse ever!
     
  16. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Contributing Member

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    I think this franchise needs a talent upgrade at the GM position before anything else.
     
  17. Ericstocracy

    Ericstocracy Member

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    Yep, sad but true. This was suppose to be the best collective group of WR the Texans ever had, and all but Hopkins are grading out poorly.

    There have been issue with drops, running incorrect routes, and poor blocking among other things. A lot of issues can be linked to the QB, personal mistakes, and poor play calling. It's really a collective effort.
     
  18. baubo

    baubo Member

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    It's hard to say because like 2 years ago, players have checked out. The Texans defense in the 2nd half of last year was one of the best in the entire NFL. I don't believe that unit just suddenly lost all their talent. Especially since the Texans deferred Watt quite a bit of money so they could splurge on this FA.

    This is on coaching pure and simple, and Rick Smith unless you believe BOB has all the power and Smith is a patsy anyway. If we had a good coach and even competent QB, say import Arizona's coach and QB, we'd be a playoff team for sure, probably even division winner in AFC South.
     
  19. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Contributing Member

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    The coaching staff sucks at picking players, but you know what? They're not supposed to. Hard Knocks told us what we already knew: Rick Smith is an empty suit and has no input whatsoever into the decisions to draft or sign players. When your coach is making picks that suck, that's not the coach's fault. That's the GM's fault for not having enough clout to challenge the HC and give valuable input into the decision making process. Very few times can the HC manage the 53 man as well as coach.

    Also, it's wasted breath trying to agitate against BOB. This is a Bob McNair ownership: O'Brien will have at least three if not four years to prove his mettle. Nothing with the performance on the field is changing that.
     
  20. Rudyc281

    Rudyc281 Member

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    You mentioned a couple post ago about possible free agents would love to hear your input about that.
     

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