1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Communist China continue to practice Capitialism

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Amiga, Sep 24, 2015.

  1. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,712
    Likes Received:
    18,489
    China to launch national Cap-and-Trade program to limit emissions

     
  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,675
    Likes Received:
    41,557
    This is something that I've seen in the PRC, while they are the biggest polluters there also is no debate there about the effects of greenhouse gases and human climate change. That is different here than the US when there is still major denial that is hampering action on it.
     
  3. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    18,155
    Likes Received:
    17,963
    They almost don't have a choice at this point, the pollution in the big cities is horrible. No matter what political or economic system they aspire to, they have to do something about this ASAP.
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,131
    Well, we don't know what their debate is like and there has been a lot of action here even with a lot of disagreement
     
  5. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,712
    Likes Received:
    18,489
    So it's a + and + for them?

    It's not entirely dependent to each other. They can still go Co2 unrestricted while cleaning up air. But that's so yesterday method and technology (i.e. dino and backward looking). So rather than invest in that, they are looking forward.

    As rocketsjudoka pointed out, they and their public do not question AGW. They are just taking responsible actions that is also a + for their future economy. I think they understand well what drive the next economy. They are investing and this is just another step toward their strategy.
     
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,675
    Likes Received:
    41,557
    There's the obvious pollution such as smog but anthropogenic climate change isn't very obvious. As this site shows many simply don't understand the concept and believe that when it snows in winter means that it isn't happening. The PRC is taking steps to address both the very obvious pollution and the not so obvious things. While they have a long way to go and for every step they take forward they take two back at least they aren't in denial about it.
     
  7. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,131
    How do you know there aren't some Chinese who disagree? China isnt exactly a place that allows dissent.

    Judging by this logic, Chinese also agree with censorship and blocking of most of the internet.

    And I completely disagree that the US has taken zero steps against climate change.

    US has lowered emissions far more than China has
     
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,675
    Likes Received:
    41,557
    True I'm not privy to the internal Politburo debate but I've yet to see any PRC officials or even local people question it AGW like they do here. In a lot of things like the World's Fair and trade fairs they go to great lengths to talk about the issue. While a lot of this is for propaganda purposes and I suspect might also be a dig at the US.
     
  9. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    10,344
    Likes Received:
    1,203
    Beijing's air quality is ****. It really is. Had a co-worker (American) who spent several years in China. She said it is as bad as it seems and that it is quite sad considering how beautiful the city is. However, that has nothing to do with CO2 and everything to do with actually carbon pollution (black carbon). Aerosols are also the largest contributor to glacier retreat.
     
  10. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,131
    Yeah but that goes to my point. When does anyone question anything in China?

    This is true of all their issues.
     
  11. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,131
    They are still poor and need cheap power. Coal is dirty but it's better than keeping people in poverty

    As they grow richer they will be able to switch to cleaner tech and they are already laying the groundwork
     
  12. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,712
    Likes Received:
    18,489
  13. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,675
    Likes Received:
    41,557
    It is a country of 1.4 billion so there probably are some who don't believe it and yes the PRC does crack down on dissent. The PRC though has left a moderate amount of freedom in HK including to criticize the PRC government, to an extant. That said I haven't heard anyone in the dissident community or in HK express doubts about whether AGW is happening.
     
  14. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,131
    Those polls don't show drastic differences.

    And some of the "we're doing too much" people have a point depending on what the regulation is we're talking about
     
  15. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,131
    They usually dissent about political freedoms that are more important right now, no?
     
  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,675
    Likes Received:
    41,557
    There are dissidents in the PRC and while many are in jail there are also many who have gotten their message out. Also in HK and Macau there still is a far greater freedom of speech and I've seen and talked to anti-government protesters there.

    None of them that I can recall ever questioned whether AGW was happening or accused the PRC of covering up evidence that AGW isn't like those who deny it here or in the UK.
     
  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,675
    Likes Received:
    41,557
    True yes but what makes you think then that they also are in denial about AGW?
     
  18. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,712
    Likes Received:
    18,489
    95% vs 65% concern about GW is quite a drastic difference.

    Also, some of us do talk to mainland Chinese folks directly and have a sense of their thinking. They just do not question AGW. They think it's weird that we do.
     
  19. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,712
    Likes Received:
    18,489
    If you don't trust China polling data, then look at the other Asian Pacific countries. They are quite close in their opinion.
     
  20. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,131
    93% for the Asian countries but were closer to a lot of the European and Scandinavian countries
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now