Why do the advanced stats like Terrence Jones more than D-Mo?

I understand it, but I just can't agree with it.

Some are more impressed by freak athleticism and flashy blocks and dunks than they are by anything else. For those, Jones is the superior player.

 

I made this exact thread a little back

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=267770

If anyone hasn't seen it.

 

I think Jones is the better player... D-Mo is a bit more unique tho so they are pretty much equal

 

You're truly worse than the Lin fans sometimes.

 

People like to get their panties in a tight wad everytime a decent white player comes along.

Jones has been the more productive/better/consistent pro over their careers. Fact. There was an article out this season that said Houston has found their 3rd star, TJones was killing it but he doesnt get his due credit.

Put that in perspective and these stats aren't the least bit surprising.

Dmo gets too much praise and Jones doesnt get enough.

 

Jones is much better than DMo at getting his offensive production without having plays run for him. He is more aggressive when he gets the ball. He is a better offensive rebounder. He is quicker and more athletic at catching lobs.

DMo's offense consists of posting up and hitting the kick out 3. Both relies on plays designed for him as the scorer. When he does not get the entry pass, he does not stay inside fighting for position. He drifts back out to set screens. And he's a poor rebounder to get put back opportunities.

 

I told you the advanced stats were racists. :grin:

 

LOL who sounds like Lin fans here? I do remember people who claimed that certain players weren't getting enough credit due to racism....who was that?

Jones fanatics have always been the 2nd coming of Lin fans. They have little to no case for their guy, but that doesn't stop them.

 

Funny how some people are trying to make ridiculous claims that has them either blind to D-Mo's talents or TJ's talents. Both have their strengths, one is not much better than the other and luckily for us a lot of the other's weaknesses are the other's strengths so they complement each other pretty well. TJ is the rebounder, creator, dribbler & shot blocker. D-Mo is the post player, the footworker on both sides, the system player & passer. What more do you guys want, be happy we have both for the time being

 

Honestly, the differences between the two players are smaller than a lot of people think, much smaller than certain jock riding posters would ever care to admit. Here are my expanded thoughts on the two players:

1. D-Mo definitely broke out last year and was having a very good season last season, minus his complete inability to grab rebounds as the biggest man on the team. He was good at position D, but certainly didn't scare anyone. I would go a step farther and argue that no opposing players respected D-Mo on D. It is more similar to Yao's D of simply being in the right place at the right time and using his height to bother opponents. Let's face it, it is hard to shoot over a 7 footer regardless of their wingspan.

2. T-Jones was injured most of last season as we all know, so there was not much to go on outside of his playoffs performance, which was for lack of better words... crappy. That said, his poor performance was further magnified/amplified by trying to stop the elite bigs of the West. No one will ever say that T-Jones was good defensively, but when you play against the cream of the crop power forwards, you are going to look bad no matter what. Just ask Battier about guarding Kobe. This is even before we even talk about how he was still rebuilding his stamina and shaking off rust from not playing the majority of the season with one fluke injury after another.

3. Rebounding is something we all like to harp on with it comes to D-Mo and D-Mo fanboys like to argue that T-Jones's numbers were not better. Well, to begin with, T-Jones luckily has played most of his minutes with both Harden and Howard, while D-Mo played last season mostly with Howard injured. While D-Mo fanboys love pointing this fact out on how the two performed on offense, they conveniently forget to mention that T-Jones's rebounding numbers will also take a severe hit playing next to this guy called Dwight Howard.

4. Scoring is what really divides Rockets fans when it comes to picking one over the other. D-Mo is indisputably the better scorer. He is a better shooter, passer, post-up player, and shot creator. T-Jones however, is a far superior clean-up type player. Basically, due to the different skill sets, the two players also have different roles. IMO, T-Jones complements Howard much better than D-Mo, but D-Mo compliments Harden better due to his ability to hit that corner three when needed. This is a very important outlet for Harden. This is also why I believe we will stick with D-Mo going forward if he recovers nicely as Harden is our future, not Howard.

In short, both players are needed for the Rockets right now going forward, but if D-Mo continues his progress, I am inclined to prefer him over T-Jones in the long run going forward.

 

They probably forget because this never happened except in your head.

The collective intelligence of those who think Jones is better than or equal to D-Mo is probably equivalent to Jones' bball IQ.

 

im not an advanced stat guy but why dont you guys know this? when your 'out of position' minutes overwhelm your natural position your stats are gonna be skewed http://www.82games.com/1415/14HOU19.HTM#bypos

 

Not really sure why people say TJones isn't a better rebounder than DMo.

TJones- 13.9 Reb%, 9.0 rebounds per 36
DMo- 11.6 Reb%, 7.5 rebounds per 36

 

See and even though you're trying to be objective, there's one big flaw in your first point: TJ's play-off performance last year was not 'crappy'. Far from it and I just cannot believe Rockets fans trying to devaluate what TJ has done for us. You're supposed to be a Rockets fan, so how bad is it that TJ gets all this praise from every former coach and player during the play-offs which probably has some value since they know basketball and we, as ROCKETS fans, try to say "nah, he was crap." How dumb is that, seriously?

 

Sort of how when Golden State goes small and puts Draymond Green at center?

 

See and even though you're trying to be objective, there's one big flaw in your first point: TJ's play-off performance last year was not 'crappy'. Far from it and I just cannot believe Rockets fans trying to devaluate what TJ has done for us. You're supposed to be a Rockets fan, so how bad is it that TJ gets all this praise from every former coach and player during the play-offs which probably has some value since they know basketball and we, as ROCKETS fans, try to say "nah, he was crap." How dumb is that, seriously?

 

I think that podcast that was posted previewing the division nailed it.

Jones is probably the slightly overall better player and his skill set fits better with our roster when completely healthy, but at the same time his skill set is more easily replaced. Dmo is much more unique and his best skill, post ups, aren't going to be featured very heavily in our offense. That said if his 3 point improvement is legit then that starts to make each guys effectiveness with the rest of the guys more even.

All in all if you just went off what you read here then 2 of the more frequent posters are going to make you think comparing Jones to Dmo is like comparing a run of the mill big with Hakeem, when in reality they are pretty damn close as players overall.

If I'm choosing one for the future I'm going Dmo, but it wouldn't shock me if that decision were proven to be wrong.

 

Advanced stats, or really any stats but since we're discussing advanced stats right now, is dependent on results. There was better results with Jones on the floor. I feel this is mostly because he finishes much better than DMo. DMo may have much better post moves, but Jones is the guy who when Harden drives into the lane he can dish to and get that dunk. So Jones' efficiency has for a long time simply been amazing. This doesn't mean he's better, but IMO he's the better fit as a starter. By the same token, DMo probably fits better on the bench where he can come in and use up some possessions when Howard and Harden are taking their breaks.

 

Easy. You're better than this.

That's one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen on here in a while.

What does it even mean if Jones is better than that? Almost all of his points come directly created from Harden drives or garbage man clean up around the rim.

D-Mo is significantly better than Jones at creating his own shot.
That's the part that matters.

 

And that's where the rest of your credibility dies. Jones was a net negative in the playoffs. He was the 2nd worst defensive PF on any team in the playoffs and hit only 16% of his 3's while making DMo's rebounding look like Rodman's rebounding.

If you can look at his playoff performance and think that was good, you've reached a level of homerism that I never thought possible.