If truth were known, a case could be made that Vince Young was not drafted by the Texans due to race. I don't think race entered the Texans' thinking, but the profile, bias and stereotype affected the outcome more than it has been discussed. Here is why- If Vince Young was named say... Brady Quinn, played for Texas, was a white QB and did everything physically, statistically, and performance wise that VY did at Texas, (in other words- had the exact same season, made the exact same plays, with the exact same skill set, had the same come from behind wins, led the nation in passing, and then led the team to the undefeated season and single handedly won the national championship game and was MVP) then ESPN would have had him hyped as the greatest college QB to come out in 50 yrs. The entire media would have compared him to Montana and Elway. After leading the nation in passing mostly from the shotgun, the experts would have been telling us it would be no problem for him to adjust to the under center snap. They would have heralded his remardable athleticism, speed, elusiveness, toughness and pointed out his leadership, passing efficiency and nation leading stats. His highlights would have been constant on ESPN and his poise and ability to carry the team constant lauded. The media hype would have built over the season and the Texans would have looked foolish to extend David Carr. If you don't believe it, just think if Brady Quinn himself had that kind of season this year for the Notre Dame Fighting Irish. Imagine if he did everything as well as VY, had the exact same skill set and led the Irish to an undefeated season and then embarrassed Ohio St. in the championship. The team that passed him in the 07 draft would look stupid. So in a very subconscience way I believe race played a big factor in decisions about VY. I don't remember anyone comparing him to anyone but Randall Cunningham. I think objectively his college career more resembled Joe Montana or John Elway and I am pretty sure his pro career will follow the same track. Do you see that race or at least stereotyping was a negative for VY?
Race could have been a factor, but he was still picked #3 Overall. The Texans thought David Carr was their future at QB, that's why they passed on VY, I don't think race had too much to do with it. If it was, then it's even more of a reason to dislike McNair and co. Look at guys like Vick, Steve McNair, Dante Culpepper, McNabb, I don't think you can play the race card on black QBs anymore because these guys have arguably been the best QBs in the NFL for a while (along with Peyton and Brady). But then again you look at the upcoming draft and you have to wonder why guys like Brady Quinn and Brian Brohm are rated so much higher than Troy Smith.
I don't think it is racism or blatant prejudice, I think it's subconscience and effects underlying projections. Just think for a moment if a white QB did EXACTLY what VY did. You don't think he would have been deified by ESPN? Why wasn't VY compared to Montana? or Elway?
What the anti-political correctness crowd neglects to acknowledge is that RACE is a factor in virtually ALL things involving humans. It is IMPOSSIBLE to say race is not factor in situation X. Race is woven into the fabric of the human condition. Race is as important to our daily lives as dealing with people's personality on a daily basis, bad moods or breathing air. Race is inescapable. So did race play a role in the Texas NOT drafting VY. ABSOLUTELY. Was Race significant enough to mention. I don't think so. When it comes to sports, teams want to win and race is a trivial factor (albeit a real factor).
The Texans' team is like 90% black. How could you possibly say they are racist against blacks? If anything, this data points to reverse racism against whites. Vince scored a 6 on his wonderlic. That is beneath literate. That was a standardized test that was in no way racist. That, in combination with Kubiak legitimately believing in David Carr, led to the selection of Super Mario (who by the way is....BLACK).
What they doing? HATIN on US But they never cross, HOUSTON TEXAS is the CITY, and VINCE YOUNG IS THE BOSS!!!!
although i completely disagree with tinman, i think he was talking about the stereotype the NFL once had about black quarterbacks... the notion that blacks were not smart enough to be QB's... it's pretty evident suckage is an equal opportunity employer ask david carr
ESPN was too busy deifying Reggie Bush. Matt Leinart led his team to the BCS championship and was never "deified" by ESPN. Leinart had remarkably consistent passing statistics for 3 seaons and all 3 were roughly the same or better than Young's best year. Clearly Young is the better runner, but Leinart's teams accomplished more than Young's.
But when they were both at the absolute peak of their career, Vince was superior. It's like George Foreman racking up the early rounds vs. Muhammad Ali then getting KO'd in the 8th. Matt Leinart's second half vs. Texas, was, by a lot of accounts, the best he had ever played in his career - and he was a great, great college player. And it still wasn't enough to overcome Vince.
IMHO, money had alot more to do with the Texans passing on Vince Young than race did. They were already in the shtuck to David Carr for millions, and he had an option coming up. VY would have cost serious bucks as well. On top of that, even through VY would have sold out Reliant Stadium for a decade, they would have been starting over offense-wise. If the Texans had been starting a 4th or 5th round draftchoice at QB instead of David Carr, I have no doubt they would have drafted Vince Young.
Vince Young had a great junior year and a great finish in the BCS championship. Leinart had a great 3 years. In particular he had a great junior year and also a great finish in the BCS championship. My only point is that he was not "deified" either. I do not think the Texans passing on Young or the lack of "deification" by ESPN is racist in any way. ESPN was riding the Reggie Bush train last year. If Bush wasn't around, they probably would have been riding Vince Young (at least once the BCS was over)
See, I disagree with this. I believe Leinart did everything he could in that 2nd half, and was equally effective as Young. It wasn't Leinart's fault that the fullback dropped a pass on their 2nd to last drive, or that Lendale White couldn't pick up the 4th down yardage. Remember, USC nearly drove into field goal range before the game ended. With 20 additional seconds on the clock, they likely would have won the game. Vince also benefitted from Texas' superior defense.
Pretty much agreed. While I knew that Carr wasn't a good QB, I knew damn well we weren't taking Young.
I'm not arguing their cumulative careers, I'm arguing that at the end of their development, Young was superior. That's why he was the first QB taken.
VY has a below average NFL arm, but great legs. Thus, he is not "the best QB coming out of college in the last 50 years".
Except that Vince Young mostly beat SC with his legs than his arm and perhaps more than anything that National Championship game cemented Young's reputation as a great runner and not a great passer. Many NFL coaches love complex passing games and so QB's who have a reputation as being better passers than runners tend to get more attention in the NFL. Whether it is racial stereotyping or something else most (not all) black QB's have been been better scrambling or shotgun QB's than pocket passers. On top of that many QB's who have the reputation as scramblers once they come into the NFL are forced into becoming pocket passers. This applies to both black and white such as Donovan McNabb or Jake Plummer. For Vince Young I think his Wonderlic score and his reputation put doubts into many people's mind whether he would be able to master being a pocket passer and run an offense as complicated as the West Coast. I think those more than latent racism might've played a factor. That doesn't mean though that there was a latent racism behind that thinking but that's very hard to determine. I think by now black QB's like Donovan McNabb, Daunte Culpepper and Warren Moon have shown that black QB's can be master pocket passing and complicated offenses. That didn't mean that everyone automatically assumed Vince Young could master pocket passing due to his Wonderlic skill, his performance on the field and that Mack Brown simplified his offense to accomodate Vince Young. As for the Texans not picking Vince Young that's still a mystery for me. Given his local appeal and definate skills. Also I'm glad to see that Vince Young is proving himself to be a very able passing QB. I think this has less to do with racism and more to do with that major sports media are always kissing @ss. How else to explain why a team that stacks its schedule with such powerhouses as Army and loses critical games against and still has a high ranking and gets to leapfrog past higher ranked teams to be an at large birth at a major bowl game. One thing seems constant in college football is that year after year even if they are mediocre or plain terrible Notre Dame will get more media attention than almost any college team.
