1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

  2. Live Rockets Discussion
    Jalen Green looks like a legit star, Amen Thompson is shining and the Rockets have found something without Alperen Sengun. Clutch is talking about the 10-game winning streak at 11:00am as we talk Rockets live!

    Talking Rockets - LIVE!

Upgrading the SF/PF rotation - Trade options

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by ilias, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. ilias

    ilias Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    632
    Reasonably pleased with the team’s play so far, but we need to improve further to beat GSW in the playoffs. Our summer moves addressed some of our weaknesses – Luc/Tucker added defence, Paul brought play-making, Black depth at C. Our remaining weak spot is the quality of our SF/PF rotation.

    Ariza/Anderson/Luc/Tucker are good players worthy of a rotation spot in a contender, but average starters at best. At PG/SG Harden, Paul, Gordon is top rotation in the league. Between Capela/Nene/Black we are solid at C. For us to beat GSW we need one SF/PF player that can come close to Gordon’s or Capela’s production. That is not going to happen organically. Even through trade we are not going to get any star players, but we may find some that improve on our rotation. Below I examine some players that we have a semi-realistic shot at acquiring:

    1. Carroll: Bad contract, declining play, not a real upgrade on Ariza
    2. Matthews: Stats don’t look great, but his efficiency would go up with us (lower usage, better looks). He can still defend and hit the 3. Ariza is the better defender, Matthews the better playmaker. If it weren’t for his contract (he may opt-in next year), he would be an interesting Ariza alternative.
    3. Wilson Chandler: Perennial Clutchfans target. Not a real upgrade on Ariza, although he can drive and run the break well. Extra year on Chandler’s contract makes Ariza a better bet.
    4. Will Barton: Similar situation with Chandler. Barton can score, but he is not the defender Ariza is. He would be great as a 4th guard, but more of a luxury rather than a must-have.
    5. Jonathon Simmons: Great signing by Orlando. Signed for 2 years past this one at $6.6m p/a. Still sits on the bench. Has improved in all aspects, and has further potential. Lots of energy. Would love to steal him, but Orlando like him. In the real world (ie excluding Lebron signing with us in the summer) Simmons is an ideal long-term replacement for Ariza. Would trade Ariza (or Tucker), Qi (or Onuaku), a 1st- and a 2nd-round for him.
    6. Joe Johnson: A down season for him, his shot hasn’t been falling. Even at this age he brings some things to the table, but Ariza is a more reliable defender.
    7. Nikola Mirotic: Well documented issues at Chicago. 1-year contract at $12.5m. Hasn’t been as good as expected, but may be down to Bulls situation. Can hit the 3, rebound, and put the ball on the floor. Has a career PER of 16. Grittier than people think. A defensive upgrade over Anderson and an offensive upgrade over Tucker. In our system he would not be asked to do more than he can. I see him as a good fit, he can become a +38% 3p shooter in a team that gives him good looks. Would I trade Tucker for him? Luc has made the need for Tucker's defense less urgent, but I like the flexibility PJ brings (small ball line-ups with Tucker at C). I’m kind of on the fence leaning towards thinking that Mirotic would give us a better shot this year vs Tucker.
    8. James Johnson: Had a great season and got paid. Great playmaker, can play both SF/PF. If it weren’t for his contract, he would be an upgrade on Ariza/Tucker. However, a bad 3pt shooter, so not an ideal fit for us.
    9. Saric: Had a great rookie season. Has improved his 3pt shot. Lots of upside, will become an above average starting PF. Underutilized this year, and will be even more so when Philly plugs Fultz back into the starting line-up. Not sure if he fits next to Simmons and Covington, may be the odd man out in the long-term. Still, Philly is likely to hold onto him throughout his rookie contract. Hard to get this done, we don’t have the assets to entice Philly.
    10. Markieff Morris: He was so good at Phoenix that year before his brother got traded. Would be a great fit with the Rockets. Wizards may need to move him in the summer if they decide to pay Oubre. Most likely they will keep him through the season to see how far they get. Known knucklehead, but CP may be able to tame him.
    11. Marvin Williams: At some point Charlotte will make Kaminsky the starter and trade Williams. Williams can defend and hit the 3. He is not the shooter Ryan is, nor the defender Tucker is. Contract (has player option for 2020 at $15m) and age make him an uninspiring option.

    Summary/TLDR: Need to upgrade SF/PF rotation to beat GSW, but not a lot of great options. If Jonathon Simmons, Markieff Morris or Dario Saric were available at a reasonable cost, I’d be all in. I’d probably also roll the dice with Mirotic if all it took was Tucker and filler. Mirotic is the only one available today, the other 3 are less realistic targets. Perhaps best to stick with what we have and wait for better players that may become available.
     
    da_juice and IvanLCPM like this.
  2. Daddy Long Legs

    Daddy Long Legs H- Town Harden

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2016
    Messages:
    10,984
    Likes Received:
    13,588
  3. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,913
    Lebron or PG in the offseason.
     
    BigggReddd, Reeko, Cash Cam and 2 others like this.
  4. Sean Dr34ms

    Sean Dr34ms Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,075
    Likes Received:
    4,332
    Ariza, 1st and 2nd for Jonathan Simmons? No thank you.
     
  5. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,474
    Likes Received:
    44,649
    dont understand this thread. none of the guys listed are even upgrades. if you're talking about adding even more depth then yeah it makes some sense. but saying upgrading, its not even an upgrade
     
  6. RHU525

    RHU525 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Messages:
    4,521
    Likes Received:
    6,175
    WTF.. trading for any of those guys will not help us win a Championship. It's Lebron or bust.
     
    seeingredtx likes this.
  7. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    13,534
    Likes Received:
    10,522
    So I actually read this as I do any thread posts serious about the Rockets, but I admit I am still confused; how do any of those players help push us over GSW?

    One other thing, Ryno's D has been very good this season.
     
  8. Obito

    Obito Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    10,682
    Likes Received:
    3,801
    Of the guys you listed, Simmons is the only real upgrade. Im all for upgrading Ryno or Ariza but a lot of these guys might be better at certain things but they certainly don’t understand and fit the system like Ariza & Ryno.
     
    roslolian and DonKnock like this.
  9. ilias

    ilias Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    632
    Improving the team this season does not have to come at the expense of our off-season activity. Eg trading Tucker + fillers for an expiring Mirotic clears $12.5m of cap space in the summer. Plus could help us this season.
     
  10. Daddy Long Legs

    Daddy Long Legs H- Town Harden

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2016
    Messages:
    10,984
    Likes Received:
    13,588
    Chill out.
     
  11. cdrive

    cdrive Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    7,467
    Likes Received:
    7,081
    Deserves its own thread.

    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/random-houston-rockets-trade-ideas-2017-18.285983/page-4


    But seriously you want to give up PJ Tucker (and filler) for Mirotic? Why? PJ can guard all 5 positions and is a big part of our secret sauce, which is position-less basketball. Him and Mbah have been great together providing D off the bench.

    We're 13-4, 4 Ls without CP3. I'd say we're good. We took it from the Dubs at the Oracle. They've yet to show they can beat our new squad. We're top in polls as the #1 team who can contend against Golden State. We have 2 more games against the Dubs and they're both at the Toyota Center. If we just win 1 of those games, we have the tie breaker. If we stay healthy, I see us competing for that #1 seed, especially if we can get the tiebreaker. This team is good. Don't mess with it. Missing out on Melo was one of the best things that could've happened. Our mojo is strong right now.

    The only way we should tweak what we have to further improve our chances to contend is to wait until the buyout deadline and see if there are any good pick ups to be had. If we maintain toe to toe with GSW after All Star weekend, then there's going to be some talent wanting to jump on our train.

    I definitely wrote too much but I'm blaming the coffee.
     
    Cashmoney, D-rock, DonKnock and 2 others like this.
  12. DavidRocket

    DavidRocket Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    2,450
    Likes Received:
    2,557
    This team has already beaten GSW on the Road with a hobbled CP3. Chemistry will get better.

    This team as is believe it or not could be able to get it done.
     
    Robert Kogut and arabrocket like this.
  13. Clown Baby

    Clown Baby Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    132
    Only guy that would be a real upgrade for our chances vs. GS is Simmons.

    Saric has skills but he's overrated. He received some hype for being a rookie last year but his game doesn't seem to translate into the NBA that well. BIGTIME PASS on him. He would only make us worse.

    Mirotic: A defensive upgrade over Anderson and an offensive upgrade over Tucker... but a more valuable player than neither.

    The SF/PF rotation isn't perfect but Ariza/Moute/Tucker are all extremely switchable defenders who can hit the open 3... exactly what we need vs. GS. Anderson's defense is a hole for this team but his shooting is a weapon, so we have to make due.
     
    raining threes and DonKnock like this.
  14. asianballa23

    asianballa23 Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    3,215
    Likes Received:
    624
    OP just want to see a trade for the heck of it, regardless if it helps or not help the team. Stick with fantasy football OP.
     
    arabrocket, roslolian, Reeko and 2 others like this.
  15. seeingredtx

    seeingredtx Enlightened

    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,266
    Likes Received:
    1,885
    1st in the West....if it ain't broken....you know the rest. The Memphis game was the first game all players were healthy and again, we currently sit in the #1 seed almost 1/4 through the season. Like @Mathrocker said....chill
     
    #15 seeingredtx, Nov 20, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
    Daddy Long Legs likes this.
  16. Realjad

    Realjad Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,418
    Likes Received:
    1,726
    You may have written a quality post, but I had to stop reading because of the bold above.

    You make a point to give props for signing TWO PLAYERS that IMPROVE the team, then you go directly into saying that the positions THEY PLAY needs to be improved. wth o_O
     
    roslolian likes this.
  17. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    18,151
    Likes Received:
    17,955
    We are offensively almost as good as the Warriors, and defensively far worse. Still, almost every day, someone suggests we make a basically lateral move to improve our offense and worsen our defense.

    We don't need more shooting or scoring. Gordon is an incredible 3rd scorer, and Anderson/Capela are capable 4th scorers. Paul and Harden are historically elite.

    What we need is defense, and we haven't even seen a decent stretch of games with our best defensive player. Come on guys.
     
  18. FLASH21

    FLASH21 Heart O' Champs

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    13,501
    Likes Received:
    5,423
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy QUEEN ANON

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    36,739
    Likes Received:
    13,131
    CP3's addition will help improve out net defensive rating at least 2 spots. But what other transaction would be an easy way to improve defensively? What is the low hanging fruit right now defensively? Improving defensive rebounding %? Forcing more turnovers?
     
    Nook likes this.
  20. marky :)

    marky :) Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    Messages:
    4,563
    Likes Received:
    4,100
    Lol what. Thread title says "upgrading" but then the descriptions of each player you put "not a real upgrade" or a version of that.

    Confusing thread is confusing.
     
    roslolian, Reeko, DonKnock and 3 others like this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now