1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Wings and forwards

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by snowconeman22, Jun 25, 2017.

  1. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    14,059
    Likes Received:
    16,011
    There has been a lot of discussion about playing small , and the NBA is certainly sliding this way . Despite this , and despite everyone's wishes , we can't go into the season starting Ariza or Paul George or Gordon Hayward at the 4.

    Sure they can play it, sure they can even play significant minutes at those spots . But look at Cleveland and GS . Golden state started zaza so green could start at the 4.

    My point it this , the length of the season will wear small ball 4's down. Neither Ariza nor George nor Hayward ( if we were able to land them) could sustain a whole season of banging vs other PF's. We had to try to use James in the playoffs to guard that spot , and James (who is a very good post defender ) got worn down in a couple of games.

    Of course , our actual 4 spot (and 3 for that matter ) need an upgrade . But bringing in a wing and sliding Ariza (or the new wing ) to the 4 shouldn't happen.

    Yes , that could and likely would be our best lineup, but that lineup should not be the one starting the game. Therefore , we would still need to figure out the stating 4 spot ( please no Anderson)
     
  2. Jayzers_100

    Jayzers_100 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,234
    Likes Received:
    2,877
    I really think Gallo would be an underrated jackpot signing. I just have a hunch he'll stay healthy and have a great impact. Great size
     
  3. saleem

    saleem Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2001
    Messages:
    29,330
    Likes Received:
    13,470
    He can't bring defense or rebounding, even if he remains healthy.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  4. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    89,865
    Likes Received:
    43,278
    Sure, a good piece but not great. Like majority of our team.
     
  5. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    45,153
    Likes Received:
    21,570
    Who cares?

     
  6. rocketsballin

    rocketsballin Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,041
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    ariza, along with anyy otherr wing who has enough height, can play the 4 if they bulk up and dont play superstar minutes. those 2 are key.
     
    fattz likes this.
  7. fattz

    fattz Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    5,386
    Likes Received:
    5,103
    Ariza PT is just silly. I think the platoon method is the way to go here --> we have young talent on cheap contracts. Each one will give us a different look. We need quality not quantity from Ariza.

    Use your bench please, coach
     
    saleem likes this.
  8. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
    Uh .... champions???
     
  9. malakas

    malakas Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    20,167
    Likes Received:
    15,381
    Paul George could easilly play the 4 if he wanted. At least spend half of his minutes there. But he doesn't want to.
    There aren't that many fearful 4s in the league that will bang you around.
     
  10. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    89,865
    Likes Received:
    43,278
    Wise choices of words.
     
  11. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,688
    Likes Received:
    44,883
    the league has gone small ball for quite sometime now. it's not just starting. teams that are built traditionally with a 4 and 5 to win years ago really have no chance now. clippers are a prime example, utah/memphis have had their ceilings as a result. you have to be able to score and score in bunches, play at a quicker pace, stretch the floor, get stops when needed. small ball will be the majority of lineups used throughout the course of a season, especially in the playoffs for the foreseeable future. the real counter to defeating small ball is finding bigs that punish these lineups but unfortunately there aren't any bigs good enough in this league to do that on a nightly basis, especially when the majority of the ones that show any type of actual skill are outside shooting jumpers.
     
  12. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    25,275
    Likes Received:
    13,000
    I think this oversimplifies it.

    Like the Grizzlies has had their ceiling because they're players are old and weren't good enough. Utah's ceiling will depend on their players top peaks. Currently it's not good enough. The Clippers could have been REALLY close to good enough, but for the fact that they are chokers and micro-managers, Doc is an overrated coach, an extremely overrated coach/GM combo, and CP3/Blake still don't really mesh all that spectacularly (because like DJ before him who wanted to leave and didn't have the balls to do so, Blake also doesn't love playing with CP3).

    I'm not saying small ball isn't the current/future. I think it clearly has a role. But more that we'll see traditional, VERY tall PFs incorporate both inside/outside games [see KAT for example].

    Or more to the point, I think Karl Malone, Barkley, KG, prime Duncan would wreck in today's game pretty much just as much as they did... maybe slight changes.
     
    snowconeman22 likes this.
  13. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,688
    Likes Received:
    44,883
    there isn't a big in the league that is dominate enough both inside and outside. and no big that plays truly inside and dominate KAT included
     
  14. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    25,275
    Likes Received:
    13,000
    KAT is most certainly that dominant, OFFENSIVELY. He puts up 25 a game, shoots 3-4 threes a game at 37%, hits 58% of his twos, etc.

    He had as dominant a 21 year old season as we've seen from anyone aside from the truly mt. rushmore esque's of the game....

    ... EXCEPT his defense

    I don't know if people realize how good KAT is already.
     
    justtxyank likes this.
  15. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,688
    Likes Received:
    44,883
    we'll see how good he truly is this year and if minny can show any drastic improvement bc there really isn't much excuse now that a top all star wing has now joined the team.
     
  16. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    28,003
    Likes Received:
    23,206
    Oh ok
     
  17. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    25,275
    Likes Received:
    13,000
    Absolutely. There's stats and empty stats, for sure.

    But just pointing out KATs offensive/rebounding stats are ridiculous for a 21 year old. 25.1 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 2.7 apg with a 62% true shooting percentage and 26 PER. He's better across the board than AD at the same age, except defensively. It's better than KG, Duncan, Malone, etc, etc, etc...

    It's just stats, and given the win/loss record just empty stats for now. But he's RIDICULOUSLY good.

    He shot 67% on his three pointers. He can double his 3 point attempts to open up his game even more.

    Random aside... absolutely you can never be sure you're going to get a KAT in the draft, instead of an Okafor. But the reason I have been so strongly in favor of somewhat of a rebuild on this nature, given the GSW dynasty, the Harden playoff difficulties, the Rockets cap situation, the Rockets defense and roster situation, etc. is because we are now in a decent era of drafts. They're back to being "strong" and will be for a few years as the youngins who have grown up in an era of high bball IQ, but lack of bigs, develop. Fultz WILL be VERY VERY good. Michael Porter Jr. has insane upside, and Marvin Bagley has been described over and over again as the potential best basketball player of this generation - some say he'd have been the top pick this year if he came out. Unheralded guys show up, top guys drop (Giles), but we are in a mini era of great drafts here. And then you can find yourselfs like the TWolves in no time. They've sucked forever... BUT, the rebuild is 3 years in the making. They will absolutely be a playoff team next year, imo, and if they can make another smart move (lose Rubio, gain a solid FA talent) they have home court potential (because Utah may drop, LAC may drop, Grizzlies always have drop potential, Blazers are an unknown).
     
  18. JD88

    JD88 Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,597
    Likes Received:
    606
    Um... Davis? 51% of his shots are taken inside 10ft (at nearly +60%). He also shot 30% from deep.

    Cousins?
    54% of his shots are taken inside 10ft (at nearly 60%). He also shot 38% from deep. <- All in NO
     
  19. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,688
    Likes Received:
    44,883
    neither
     
  20. FLASH21

    FLASH21 Heart O' Champs

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    13,542
    Likes Received:
    5,483
    Let me ask you this... how many "banging" power forwards do you really have to worry about now that most of the league is going the small ball route to matchup with the GS and CLE's of the world?

    Maybe a handful?

    Aldridge?
    Randolph? (he was coming off the bench last I heard)
    Horford? (he's been playing a lot of 5 but his natural position is 4)
    Anthony - Towns? (he plays in the middle but often ventures outside the 3 and drives in when facing up)

    That was off top... point is not very many that you have to worry about "banging" down low. Most of those guys are faced up to the basket rather than low post 4s that pound the ball on the block. Even when they tried (SAS for instance) we were pretty effective at having them matchup with us when Ariza was hot from the outside. So realistically it becomes our advantage rather than theirs.

    Just a thought. This entire league is evolving even moreso to the stretch 4 concept rather than finding players that can post you up.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now