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[Fact Checker] Harden's 4th Q v Lakers. Were we stagnant?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by heypartner, Oct 28, 2016.

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[Fact Check Score] Were we Stagnant?

  1. Definitely Right

    6 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. Mostly Right

    6 vote(s)
    28.6%
  3. Statement has as much Truth and False to it

    6 vote(s)
    28.6%
  4. Mostly Wrong

    3 vote(s)
    14.3%
  5. Definitely Wrong

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    There's a lot of talk of how we went stagnant to end the game vs Lakers. Here's my favorite, that most all of us probably agreed with.

    On that note, with the power of Video Editing and Youtube we can now Fact Check ourselves. I give you all the offensive plays when Harden returned at 7:11, after the Ennis-run offense lost 9 pts in 5 minutes to the Lakers. Kinda looks different when edited together like this.

    Discuss.
    (And keep an eye on the shot clock per possession for 7 Seconds or Less.)



    Some random notes:
    1. People constantly talk about how the new NBA rules since MJ's era make it easier for guards to drive. Notice at 4:21 in the 4th, that's Illegal Defense by Young prior to the Rules change. Eradication of illegal defense makes things a lot easier for defenses now.
    2. At 3:53 left, I'm interested in knowing what Harden is discussing with Nene. Whatever it is, nice to see what looks like a constructive conversation about the planned play.
    3. During his freethrows, did Harden look at the Adidas-rep heckler
    Put me down as someone who thought we reverted to being stagnant, too. I'm in the same boat as @KlutchQT in that comment above.

    Upon video review, I must admit that the lane was pretty damn open for us in the lock-down time of the 4th Q versus last year. That's a very good sign. And we did attack 7 Seconds or Less a lot during this span. Gotta give it to the strong effort of the Laker's kids to strip and block a lot of layups. We definitely had some good looks at layups.
     
    Houtho, kevtse, SamFisher and 6 others like this.
  2. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    It seemed to me to almost always be : 1 pass, shot. Not a lot of moving the ball to get a great look.

    Also, Harden struggling to get separation this year? He had one drive that ended in a made layup. And another drive that drew a foul I think. Other than that he couldn't create anything on his drives. Even got blocked once. Settled for a couple threes that missed.

    Used to ofen drive and finish or find a guy for a wide open corner 3. Harden used to be one of the top creators in creating corner 3s, that seems to be gone.
     
    #2 Mr. Clutch, Oct 28, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
  3. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    I feel like Gordon and Anderson each took at least 1 three during this period that probably wasn't within the flow of the offense
     
  4. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Hey, you can actually fact check yourself on that statement. See the video above.

    I count 6-7 layups, per MDA's offense. Which ones aren't "great looks."

    There should be a rule in this thread, any comments like "It seemed to me to almost always be" should be Fact Checked against the video.
     
    DonKnock and hakeem94 like this.
  5. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Was it 1 each, or more than 1? "I feel like" you should be able to actually Fact Check that against the video. :p
     
    hakeem94 likes this.
  6. dharocks

    dharocks Contributing Member

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    Not big on just focusing on what happened in the high-leverage situations. Personally, I put the loss about 80-90% on Ennis' 4 TOVs in 12 mins and Ryno/Nene's general inability to protect the paint. But I haven't had the heart to go back and re-watch, so I could be off base.
     
    ISOBall likes this.
  7. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    I have to wonder what D'Antoni sees in Ennis that warranted big time minutes.
     
  8. FANfrom86toNow

    FANfrom86toNow Contributing Member

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    While this stretch does show "the tired legs" with the missed layups, missed 3s and blocked shots, it should have never come to this, as we should have had a commanding lead this late in the game if MDA had managed the game properly. I'm not going to go into great detail here as I already did in the Rocket's vs Laker's thread, but you can never let any team stay that close at home in the NBA, or you are subject to losing no matter how much better you are than them. The ball bounces funny, along with whistles, when playing at home....especially on open night.
     
  9. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    Lol for sure , I was just going off memory . Also I haven't watched the video yet ;) .
    But since you have have def watched maybe you can tell me whether my assumption/ memory was on or off .
     
  10. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Play 1: Harden drive and layup
    Play 2: Pass to Anderson, Anderson drives and kicks it back to Harden, tries to drive but can't get past his man. Takes a bad 3 and misses.
    Play 3: Harden dribbles it off Ariza's foot and they try calling a timeout. Can't remember if they gave us the timeout or if it was a violation
    Play 4: Harden passes to Capela at the rim, blocked. 1 pass and shot
    Play 5: Harden is denied the ball. Ariza passes to Anderson, who makes a long two. 1 pass and shot
    Play 6: Gordon passes it up to Harden, Harden passes it to Capela running down the lane and he gets stripped. Turnover. This is one of those tough passes for a big man to handle.
    Play 7: Run a play for Gordon and he gets fouled on a drive. 1 pass and shot
    Play 8: Harden just dribbles at the 3pt line and airballs a 3
    Play 9: Harden fouled in the backcourt by Nick Young. Free throws.
    Play 10: Ariza gets a steal and dribbles it up. Harden not open, so he passes to a cutting Gordon who misses a layup. 1 pass and shot
    Play 11: Harden fouled on a drive. Free throws.
    Play 12: Harden dribbles for a while, drive past his man and gets blocked at the rim.
    Play 13: Harden denied the ball. Ariza passes it to Gordon who dribbles a bit then misses a bad 3.
    Play 14: They actually pass it more than once here. Harden tries to drive and passes it to Ariza, who tries to drive and finds Nene for a midrange jumper.
    Play 15: Harden tries to drive, loses the ball. Turnover
    Play 16: Inbounds play. Pass to Anderson at the top. Missed a 3 badly. 1 pass and shot.
    Play 17: Harden dribbles it up and passes to Gordon in the corner, who shoots a 3 and misses. 1 pass and shot.

    Outside of the free throws and one Harden layup, I struggle to call any of those great looks.

    Now you can say some of those missed or blocked layups should have been made, but they were well guarded. They weren't wide open.
     
  11. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Well it was the first game and while you hate to have to figure it out in a real w/l scenario, sometimes you have to do that.
    The bigger question is why they kept Ennis and cut Pablo, especially when you basically have no healthy PG on the roster.
    You know Pablo's game exactly - there's no upside or downside, it is what it is.
    With Ennis, it's a gamble, and given his career thus far, one would expect a lot of downside with the hope of that slowly diminishing and turning into mostly upside. That hope, IMO, is unfounded. Which is why they should have kept Pablo.

    All that said, and all the back and forth over DM's performance as a GM. Look, I like the guy a lot. I think he runs the team as a GM the "smart" way, that should result in success. And I think he's been railroaded over and over again by Les on these coaching changes/searches. I absolutely think DM would have hired someone younger if not for Les (perhaps Silas, Jr., maybe made a strong run at Walton early, whatever).

    But all that said, this is a complete broken record. PG, and PF. PG, and PG. PG, and PF. Yes, easier said then done. Yes, he "tries" to address it every year. Yes, he's struck out on some options there. Yes, he hasn't hit on those positions but he did get Harden!

    But this is a guard/forward league now. You've got to have one great player in each group to even be remotely decent. In 14/15, the Rockets had Harden, and then got by because Ariza was playing great (for him), and DMo was playing great (for him), and PBev was playing admirably. So it was just the one great player, but really really good support after that. It didn't matter what Dwight did / didn't do, healthy or not. Last year, we saw the beginning of the Ariza decline (which continues), PBev was ok but declined defensively imo, and the PF spot was awful.

    I can certainly microanalyze more. Better defense, rebounding would have won that game, bar none.

    But on the whole, this remains a crappy roster. Anderson brings a great skill, but not a great skillset. Same with Gordon. Of the 4 guard/foward positions, filling three of them with Gordon, Ariza and Anderson is a recipe for crappiness. Only Harden will get them to a somewhat respectable level. If you replace Harden with Klay Thomson, or Kwahi Leonard, and MDA with Steve Kerr or Pop, its still a crappy team.
     
  12. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Please note: 1 pass and shot/layup is a staple of 7 Seconds or Less. Is it really a valid criticism on layups?? btw: last two plays are catch-up mode. We have to shoot fast 3s.

    Thanks for the list: You counted one layup made, and two layups for FTs. That's three layups. Gordon's layup on the Ariza Secondary Break rolls-out with a near put-back by Nene...that's 4. Capela blocked from behind on the PnR is 5. 6 on the Harden drive where defense gets a great block at the rim. Maybe 7 on the Capela strip by the reach-in at the waist...we want that play.

    You can hate them because they didn't convert, but none of those are stagnant. And MDA would run all of them again. Those are very high percentage, no? And we still scored twice more.

    Note sure what kinda motion offense cuts you expect to get better than that. Defenses sometimes make great plays on layups ... see Lebron.
     
  13. juanm34

    juanm34 Member

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    This was MDA's way of sticking it the FO for not keeping Pablo
     
  14. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Added a Fact Check Poll for Scoring the question "Were we Stagnant"
     
  15. FTW Rockets FTW

    FTW Rockets FTW Contributing Member

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    My fact check tells me that in those possessions we could never get a hoop and then a hold and then another hoop and another hold.
     
  16. hakeemthagreat

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    I fell asleep in the 4th so I'm just now watching the highlights. I counted I think 4 or 5 missed layups, 3 by Clint. The Rockets have to finish stronger than that. No way we're winning anything if our big men are laying the ball up under the rim
     
  17. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Yeah it looks like they are running the offense but not making shots.

    But is it really supposed to be almost no penetrating by Harden and no more than 1 pass? I counted 1 successful drive by Harden (2 if you count the block). And only 1 play where they passed it twice.

    Nash used to probe the defense a lot. I understand harden isnt like that but he should keep penetrating
     
  18. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    I count 3 where they can't get anything going so just shoot a 3 and also 3 turnovers (if the foot dribble was one).
     
  19. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

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    Not so thinly veiled hack job on @KlutchQT ! Conspicuous shade thrown by @heypartner ! How am I going to fit all this beef in my freezer!?
     
  20. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    But, I "Liked" that post. Go Fact Check me on that. :D

    I also said similar things earlier in the Game Thread...or somewhere
     

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