Why is Howard Dean getting all these endorsements?

[Troy McClure]

Is he seriously the best DNC chair candidate we have? Ive heard speeches from people like Donnie Fowler, Simon Rosenberg, and Tim Roe(h?)mer, and they seem much better as organizers. Dean is a politician, a good speaker, but is that what the DNC needs instead of better structual change?

I dont know...

[RocketMan Tex]

Keeps him from running for POTUS in 2008 if he gets the DNC chair, doesn't it?

[Deckard]

Originally posted by RocketMan Tex Keeps him from running for POTUS in 2008 if he gets the DNC chair, doesn't it?

RMT, we need to concentrate on the '06 elections. Dean has many qualities that make him appealing to a lot of Democrats. For one, he talks like a Democrat, as opposed to the disorganized dribble we got from Kerry attempting to "be Bush" and be different at the same time. Stupid.

Having said that, Dean would be a distraction we don't need. He would be the poster boy used by Rove for everything "bad" Mr. Rove can dream up to continue his strategy of lying, cheating, smearing, and so on, and so on, in his clever, slimy way. I know I left a huge amount of Rove's despicable talent and mode of operations out, but that's all I'm going to use at the moment.

Dean is not the right guy. We need to keep looking, and this is a very important decision by the Party.



Keep D&D Civil!!

[No Worries]

With Dean at least we know that the status quo is out the window. The status quo has not worked for ten years wrt Congressional elections.

BTW, what national Democratic leaders are going to fall into Dean's shadow if Dean gets elected party chair. Kerry? Edwards? Gore? Hillary? The Democrats need a national party leader to step up and lead. Someone who right now is solid candidate for the party's 2008 nomination. I don't think Dean is that person; he may be the person who orchestrates the events and builds a marketable platform for said spokesperson.

BTW2, I think Dean is media savy enough to limit his national press exposure and thus take himself out of Rove's equation.

BTW3, have you seen the national news articles where the Senate Democrats are asking GWB to be part of the new SS planning process? WTF. If the Democrats don't block the new SS legislation then they deserve what they get, i.e. more ass kicking by the Republicans.

[glynch]

The GOP didn't take over by being pussies.

Deckard, we need someone with an edge to get the Dems back in fighting form. Dean is not that radical. I think if you had gone to the Dean rally in Houston and seen over a 1,000 clean looking young kids out for Dean you might see things differently.

I have never seen that in HOuston. Most Dem get togethers have a medium age of 50 plus. You can't just keep losing the old way.

[FranchiseBlade]

Originally posted by Troy McClure Is he seriously the best DNC chair candidate we have? Ive heard speeches from people like Donnie Fowler, Simon Rosenberg, and Tim Roe(h?)mer, and they seem much better as organizers. Dean is a politician, a good speaker, but is that what the DNC needs instead of better structual change? I dont know...

Actually Dean is an excellent grassroots organizer. He came in with almost no mainstream support of support from the party machine as a candidate, and organized a grass roots level campaign that really swelled beyond what anyone imagined was possible.

I think it is precisely his organization skills that are a big boon to his chances as DNC.

[Troy McClure]

Originally posted by FranchiseBlade Actually Dean is an excellent grassroots organizer. He came in with almost no mainstream support of support from the party machine as a candidate, and organized a grass roots level campaign that really swelled beyond what anyone imagined was possible. I think it is precisely his organization skills that are a big boon to his chances as DNC.

I thought that was due to...(good gosh whats his name...seiously thinking over here......come on, come on)........ the internet guy, he has his own "blog" now or something... Joe Trippi!!!! There you go. Wasnt that because of Joe Trippi?

[Trader_Jorge]

You're right glynch, they should base their strategy on the youth vote! Sure worked well last election!! Puff Daddy says vote or die! Oops upside da head, looks like we gots a lot of dead people, yo!

[Troy McClure]

Originally posted by Trader_Jorge Oops upside da head, looks like we gots a lot of dead people, yo!

Thats snoop doggy dog's song. Quit frontin', with yo weak ass ****, beyatch.

[crosses arms]

[glynch]

Actually TJ, the GOP is so afraid of Dean that they have your hero Bob Novak, who is probably on the GOP payroll like your hero Armstrong, attacking DEan. He is a complete tool like you who never deviates from the current GOP line.

[Uprising]

YYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

[bigtexxx]

Originally posted by Uprising YYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

'nuff said.

[Baqui99]

Disagree about Dean. This past election proved that you need to be closer to the middle on the issues that Americans care about. The youth will never come out and sway an election -> it's just not going to happen.

It became apparent to me that some of the key areas that Kerry struck out on were:

1. Gay Marriage although he didn't support it, this swayed tons of swing voters in places like Ohio. They didn't want to vote for the party that generally supports gay marriage.

2. National Security: Bush and Rove did a masterful job at portraying Kerry as "weak on defense." And Kerry couldn't really shake the label, as he was constantly under fire for "voting against defense spending 1 million times" or something like that. Not to mention the whole "I voted for the war, before I voted against it" fiasco.

3. Lower Taxes: Another brilliant job by Bush and Rove of portraying Kerry as a "tax and spend liberal." Americans hate big government, which doesn't bode well for Democrats, given their reputation.

In the end, these 3 reasons forced millions of Americans to vote Bush despite all his faults like: the preemptive strike on Iraq, questionable cabinet and judicial selection, and his apparent lack of intelligence.

[FranchiseBlade]

Originally posted by Baqui99 Disagree about Dean. This past election proved that you need to be closer to the middle on the issues that Americans care about. The youth will never come out and sway an election -> it's just not going to happen. It became apparent to me that some of the key areas that Kerry struck out on were: 1. Gay Marriage although he didn't support it, this swayed tons of swing voters in places like Ohio. They didn't want to vote for the party that generally supports gay marriage. 2. National Security: Bush and Rove did a masterful job at portraying Kerry as "weak on defense." And Kerry couldn't really shake the label, as he was constantly under fire for "voting against defense spending 1 million times" or something like that. Not to mention the whole "I voted for the war, before I voted against it" fiasco. 3. Lower Taxes: Another brilliant job by Bush and Rove of portraying Kerry as a "tax and spend liberal." Americans hate big government, which doesn't bode well for Democrats, given their reputation. In the end, these 3 reasons forced millions of Americans to vote Bush despite all his faults like: the preemptive strike on Iraq, questionable cabinet and judicial selection, and his apparent lack of intelligence.

Maybe but with the possible exception of #2 I think most of those voters will go to the GOP every time anyway, and Kerry only had a chance to sway them this time, because Bush bungled things so badly.

Normally people who vote those issues won't go Dem. no matter how close to the middle they go. The same is true for significant number of #2 voters as well, though not all of them.

I think the GOP with those issues motivated their base to come out. The Dems actually need to stand up for traditional democratic values, and not try and shift to the middle. Americans don't believe the dems when they did try and shift to the middle on issues, and it makes the candidate look wishy washy, like they will do anything for a vote.

I think the Dems need to appeal to their base, and get them energized, and excited in large numbers.

Dean is actually one of the more moderate Democrats, who is only to the left on Iraq and to a certain degree health care, but I think that plays in his favor, since Americans largely side with Dean on the issue. On almost every other issue he already is a centrist. When it comes to guns, taxes, budgets etc. Dean is squarely in the middle. The GOP was successful in portraying him as far left because of Iraq.

[Baqui99]

Originally posted by FranchiseBlade Maybe but with the possible exception of #2 I think most of those voters will go to the GOP every time anyway, and Kerry only had a chance to sway them this time, because Bush bungled things so badly. Normally people who vote those issues won't go Dem. no matter how close to the middle they go. The same is true for significant number of #2 voters as well, though not all of them. I think the GOP with those issues motivated their base to come out. The Dems actually need to stand up for traditional democratic values, and not try and shift to the middle. Americans don't believe the dems when they did try and shift to the middle on issues, and it makes the candidate look wishy washy, like they will do anything for a vote. I think the Dems need to appeal to their base, and get them energized, and excited in large numbers. Dean is actually one of the more moderate Democrats, who is only to the left on Iraq and to a certain degree health care, but I think that plays in his favor, since Americans largely side with Dean on the issue. On almost every other issue he already is a centrist. When it comes to guns, taxes, budgets etc. Dean is squarely in the middle. The GOP was successful in portraying him as far left because of Iraq.

You do have a point regarding mobilizing voters. Problem is that it's much easier for the GOP to mobilize voters since their following is much more politically active. All it took was a few cheesy catch phrases like "flip-flopper" and the others I referenced above to get out the vote.

At the same time, however, the Dems need do need to shift to the middle to a certain extent. It's the only way that they can win a southern state. If you don't win a single southern state, you will lose the election. PERIOD. Otherwise, if you lose Ohio, the election's over. The only way to win a southern state may be to have a paradigm shift towards the middle on some key fiscal and social issues like taxing and national security, respectively.

With regards to Dean, I was actually planning on voting for him in the primaries before he dropped out. He did an excellent job getting youngsters excited. Problem is that most people know this guy as a headcase after his meltdown in Iowa. I think it may be time for a fresh start. Time to start looking for the next Bill Clinton.