Houston Chronicle: Houston to get Subway?

[jelanit]

I saw this and thought it was interesting. Was wondering what the BBSers thought about it.
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Metro eyes ups, downs of subway
By LUCAS WALL
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

Metro unveiled its plans Wednesday for what could be Houston's first subway, an idea starting to generate excitement for some but serious doubts among others.

Transit planners presented two options for the downtown segment of the seven-mile Southeast light rail line to about 70 people attending a meeting at Drexler's World Famous Bar-B-Que & Grill in East Downtown.

The leading contender would place the tracks in a tunnel under Walker Street from roughly Dowling Street to City Hall. The other possibility is laying the rails on Capitol Street. In either case, the rest of the line is currently envisioned to run at grade similar to the existing Main Street light rail.

"At first blush, when you look at it, a subway seems to be an `are you kidding me?' type of thing," said Robert Eury, director of the Houston Downtown Management District. "But the truth of the matter is, why would we not look at such a thing if it makes the most sense?"

The Metropolitan Transit Authority has not finished cost estimates for the two options. While a subway would likely be significantly more pricey than a surface route, proponents cite numerous reasons for making the investment.

In a dedicated tunnel, trains could travel much faster and would have zero risk of colliding with automobiles -- a major problem on the current line that opened Jan. 1. There would be no disruption of automobile traffic if the line runs underground, and passengers transferring between lines would have an easy connection to the existing light rail platforms at Main Street Square.

Another factor lending support to a subway: Businesses fear the impact of another lengthy street project. Many along Main Street were forced to close as patronage plummeted during three years of construction on the first line. Tunneling would likely involve fewer street impacts.

Steve Pittman, spokesman for the East Downtown Management District, said his neighborhood is excited about the prospect of a subway station east of U.S. 59 before the rail line would pop up to the surface near Dowling and continue southeast on Scott Street past the University of Houston to South Wayside at Loop 610.

"Our position is that the rail line remain underground until they get to approximately Dowling," Pittman said. "A subway would blend with our master plan better than a surface alignment."

Some downtown interests are particularly excited about the prospect of a subway connected to the four-mile pedestrian tunnel system that links numerous office buildings housing tens of thousands of workers. Under such a scenario, a rider getting off a train at the Main Street Square subway station could reach dozens of buildings without ever having to face a downpour or scorching summer day.

"Think about it," Eury said. "You could walk much farther than you would be willing to walk on the street to get over to the station."

The subway also would likely include a stop under the George R. Brown Convention Center, and perhaps also at City Hall. It could later be extended west under Buffalo Bayou and surface onto Washington Avenue, where a long-term plan envisions a rail line west toward the Galleria.

Critics, however, are blasting the subway plan as "lunacy." The Business Committee Against Rail, which handed out fliers at the meeting in opposition to MetroRail expansion, warns that a downtown subway would be prohibitively expensive and could end up flooding like some downtown parking garages and tunnels during Tropical Storm Allison three years ago. Some other attendees were overheard voicing concerns to Metro consultants about the flood danger.

Metro and its supporters counter it is a myth that a subway can't be built in Houston because the city is so flood prone. They point to downtown's extensive system of underground walkways, utility tunnels, and parking garages, noting only a few portions flooded during Allison, and lessons have been learned on how to better engineer subsurface infrastructure. Backers also point out there is an interterminal underground people-mover at Bush Intercontinental Airport.

John Sedlak, Metro's executive vice president, said planners have examined nearly a dozen routes for the rails to travel east-west across downtown. A consensus developed that the line needs to be grade separated and travel through the center of downtown, he said. Also, he said, "we have heard reluctance for elevated structures."

Those comments reduced the options to the two presented Wednesday.

"We've been looking at a wide range of streets," Sedlak said. "The intent is by the end of the year we need to reduce that to one."

Sedlak acknowledged there would be enormous challenges to building a subway, but said the surface option also presents numerous difficulties.

Construction on whatever alignment is chosen should begin in 2007.

[RocketMan Tex]

Underground would be ideal, but they'd better have a damn good plan to counteract the "gumbo"-like clay soil mixture that is Houston dirt and flooding problems. I would like to find out how they plan to counteract those. I still feel that an elevated train is the way to go in Houston as opposed to street level or underground.

[Faos]

Originally posted by RocketMan Tex Underground would be ideal, but they'd better have a damn good plan to counteract the "gumbo"-like clay soil mixture that is Houston dirt and flooding problems. I

No kidding. Just planting a tree in my yard is a chore.

[Oski2005]

Elevated train sounds nice. I don't see how a city that floods as often as this one can have a Subway.

[MadMax]

one look at what tropical storm allison did to our downtown tunnels would remind us all what a very bad idea this is.

[Mulder]

Originally posted by jelanit I saw this and thought it was interesting. Was wondering what the BBSers thought about it. ------------- Metro eyes ups, downs of subway By LUCAS WALL Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle Metro and its supporters counter it is a myth that a subway can't be built in Houston because the city is so flood prone. They point to downtown's extensive system of underground walkways, utility tunnels, and parking garages, noting only a few portions flooded during Allison, and lessons have been learned on how to better engineer subsurface infrastructure.

Uh ya... whatever. Here's some pictures just from around Downtown from Allison.

[FranchiseBlade]

That's why Houston will have an amphibeous submarine subway. It will be great.

[Trader_Jorge]

That would be pretty sweet to replace Highway 59 with a river like that. It would open up the city to all kinds of recreational activity, much like Town Lake/Lake Austin does for Austin. Let's put this up to a vote as well, while we are on the topic of insane ideas.

[MadMax]

Mulder --

excellent illustration....and it should be pointed out that those aren't all from one side of town. the first picture is of the southwest freeway, not far from compaq center...the one next to it is obviously in close proximity to downtown...not sure about the 3rd one...and the 4th one appears to be on Memorial Drive

[Mulder]

The third is just north of Downtown on 45.

[Chance]

Why is this in D&D? Is there a secret cult of D&D Dwellers? Force of habit?

[Mulder]

Originally posted by Chance Why is this in D&D? Is there a secret cult of D&D Dwellers? Force of habit?

Houston Rail in any form is controversial. Just ask Trader "Choo-Choo Baby" Jorge

[Chance]

It's not controversial.

It's lethal.

Unless your on it.

Then it's fun!

[Baqui99]

My God, what a stupid idea. Houston is like 50 ft. above sea level. Why the hell do you think most houses built there don't have basements?

[ima_drummer2k]

I prefer Quiznos. It's a little more expensive, but it's toasty. Besides, they put more meat on....

I'm sorry, what?

Ooooh.

Nevermind.

[Fegwu]

Originally posted by Oski2005 Elevated train sounds nice. I don't see how a city that floods as often as this one can have a Subway.

Just like they have it is Amsterdam, Holland as well as many other places. The elevated or overhead idea sounds great.

This is great news all around.

For someone that has travelled the world, it still baffles me that a great and proud city like Houston is still behind in the mass transit business. But is really never too late to act. It is worth doing even for our children to enjoy.

We need to also divorce politics (if it is at all possible) from beneficial goals like these. I hope this idea is properly explored and supported as need be.

[DaDakota]

I love the ones in London and the one in Los Angeles.

They make travel in those cities so easy.

DD

[BrianKagy]

Underground would be ideal, but they'd better have a damn good plan to counteract the "gumbo"-like clay soil mixture that is Houston dirt and flooding problems.

Well, they'll probably put it in a concrete tunnel, I imagine. I don't think they'll just dig a big hole in the ground and stick a train and some tracks in it.

Then again, the way Houston's run...

I don't think a subway's a good idea but I do think mass transit-- real mass transit, not some watered down light rail solution-- is a must. Even though as an Austin resident, I guess I don't have much say in the matter.

[mc mark]

fftt! Houston subway!? Call me when you have something like this!



The greatest subway system in the world!

:D

[jelanit]

I was and still am a supporter of the light rail, but I am aware that service has been suspended a couple times because of minor flooding downtown. I just don't see how a subway would be viable in this city as it is now.