Experiment - Mobley as the Point Guard

[kmart9419]

Mobley during his early years had played point guard before. Judging from some earlier games, Mobley is capable of passing and dishing out assists when he looks for it. Perhaps if JVG changes Mobley's role from SG to PG, his overall outlook on the game will change and he will look to pass first and we move steve to SG. Steve is not a good ball handler and a poor decision maker, especially during crunch time. Steve's mentality is to take over the game during the clutch and would not pass the rock. This would often result in bored and inactive teammates which usually leads to a loss. If the rockets can get a point guard to handle the ball, get teammates involved, and limit touches for francis only when he's open will lead several Ws. I'm not sure if Mobley is right for the role, but the potential is there. Why not give it a shot. I would not want to trade either players at this point. They may have problems offensively, but defensively mobes and francis is doing a great job. Let's make do with what we have right now and see what happens.

[shawn786]

In this case y the hell wouldnt we just trade mobley for a true pg?

[verse]

kmart...


mobley most assuredly would put forth the effort to play the point guard spot. unlike many pundits here on the bbs, i realize that mobley is probably the most malleable player on the roster. he would, without a doubt, look to pass first.

i do not think that mobes has the court vision necessary to be a full time point guard in an offense with multiple cutters. however, if all we required of him was to bring the ball upcourt then look to pass it into yao, he is more than capable of doing so and, arguably, a better point guard than francis is in that capacity.

i vividly remember the olajuwon year where cat played point. although pippen brought the ball up a number of times, a good portion of the duty went to cat, and he was more than adequate at passing the ball into the post. i'm quite sure he has not forgotten how to do so.

[Nova]

Originally posted by shawn786 In this case y the hell wouldnt we just trade mobley for a true pg?

Doesn't he sorta answer this question at the end of his post? Anyways, I think this would be an interesting experiment. I've mentioned it a couple of times, and although there are arguments to be made that there's no way it could work.. it may be worth a try. I don't want to break up the Mobley/Francis backcourt but perhaps their roles should change.

[verse]

Originally posted by shawn786 In this case y the hell wouldnt we just trade mobley for a true pg?

well, look at mobley's salary. if we traded him for a "true pg" that was making his kind of money (which is not very much by nba standards), are we really getting a fair shake? probably not. we'd be giving away more than we would be getting. the "true pg" that you're looking for, i assume is of the eric snow fabric. well, those guys actually make more than cat does and, imo, would do less for this team.

if we're talking about trading cat, i'd have to throw in a motay and look at ray allen. now we're cooking with gas....

[Visagial]

I think the team would be better too if we could get him to accept that role and do it like a professional. What worries me slightly though is whether he can be trusted with the rock on every play. I feel like the only thing keeping him from shooting more is him not getting the ball as much. He would have to understand the team is trusting him to distribute the ball and not shoot just because he's open.

[DearRock]

The most efficient way to reduce the risk of SF, as your point guard is to not do anything formally, like formally moving Mobes to the point. The moves should be subtle and having Cat handle the ball in just one of a number of things that can be done now. SF has already been told to do whatever he does with less dribbling. That has to be reinforced. The next thing is give SF two choices on each def. rebound he gets: push the ball up or pass it up court. Not doing that has to be the exception not the rule which it apparently is. This would get it out of his hands or get the offense started earlier. In addition, defensive rebounders have the freedom to not necessarily pass the ball to SF. Their options are SF, Mobes, JJ, Boki and Moochie, who are all required to get the ball up court as soon as possible. Finally, the initiator of a play in the half court set is open to SF, JJ, Mobes and Moochie. These changes are all possible without having to formally change SF from being the point. Hopefully, over time, SF would get with the program.

[Nova]

Originally posted by Visagial I think the team would be better too if we could get him to accept that role and do it like a professional. What worries me slightly though is whether he can be trusted with the rock on every play. I feel like the only thing keeping him from shooting more is him not getting the ball as much. He would have to understand the team is trusting him to distribute the ball and not shoot just because he's open.

err.. well if he's open I'd rather have him shoot. Hell he's been our hottest player so far. Plus he's really lessened his shot attempts, especially stupid shot attempts. I'd say it's Francis who should shoot less, especially since he's ice cold from the field lately. Anyways, I'm sure he'd accept whatever role he gets, but I don't expect him to reduce his shooting a whole lot just because he's a 'pg' so to say. I still expect and want him to have close to 15 fga. This seasons he's averaging only a little more than 13 fga.

[danjojo]

Can we experiment IF we start losing, meaning not right now, but potentially at a later date ?

[xiki]

Why not use JJax in the back up minutes Mooch gets by being a point forward? Then the O could be initiated with two scoring threats spaced at the 3, Cat and Pike, for example.

[kmart9419]

My idea is to get the ball out of Francis hands. He's proven over the years that he is not a good floor general and has a propensity to turnover the ball when pressured. Dribblemania has been developed to described his style of play and that tells you alot. When the ball is in his hands, a great deal of the time, he would force the issue and dribble into 4 defenders. From my perspective, Mobley seems to adjust and accept his role better than Steve. Mobley will accept a role as a PG if asked of him, and he might actually enjoy his job if his assist numbers starts to pile up and the fans jump on his bandwagon. Let Steve score and have somebody else distribute the ball. Jackson and Mobes are the 2 best candidates.

[ricerocket]

I don't think JVG is a mad scientist... Just mad...

[daoshi]

There is no need to lable Mobley, or Francis a PG. The Rockets can play both them as "guards" at the same time IF JVG can implement a structured offense system, like the Lakers, the Old Bulls, the Jazzs. In those kind of systems, you really don't have to have a traditional PG who handles the ball +80% time, Mobley, or Francis would have a few predefined options in each situations, there won't be that much decision making moments for them on the spots.

However, since current Rockets offense is more freelance than structured, it requires a lot on-court decision but the guards in the game time. None of our guards, Francis/Mobley/Moochie/, has very good court vision & passing skill, which makes it hard to run the offense, easy to generate TOs.

If it's true as JVG said that he & his coach staff have been spenting most time on OFFENSE, than I'd say we need to get a good ball handler.


--daoshi

[okierock]

JVG said before the season that he doesn't place much weight on the idea that each player needs to have a defined role ie. PG, SG, PF. But I don't see this in the product on the floor, in fact what I see is these guys are very defined in their roles. If the JVG system doesn't have defined roles and he is asking for more passing then we should, over time see this on the floor as Steve and Cat will become guards instead of SG and PG. Their stats and effectivness as floor leaders will show this change. Right now I am not seeing this evolution. Time will tell.

[verse]

Originally posted by okierock JVG said before the season that he doesn't place much weight on the idea that each player needs to have a defined role ie. PG, SG, PF.

he said that because we didn't have a pure point guard on the roster. he never said that in NY because he had a pure point guard on the roster.

[franchise?..NOT]

While I agree that Steve needs to learn to pass more and dribble less, that may be asking too much. Steve is a scorer, like Mobley. Shooting is not their best suite. Having either one moving without the ball to get or create open shots therefore will not best suit this team. That's what Pike is here for. These guys strength is creating. Unfortunately they have not learned to create for their team mates consistently. Penetrating works well to create if you pass. Kidd and Williams do this with the best. Ido not think our guys have shown an ability to see the floor as they are driving enough to get good passes off. Mobley may be easier to train as a PG but then what is Steve doing?, sitting at the 3pt line waiting for a pass to shoot or drive. I guess someone other than SF getting the ball up the court with passing is good and then get the ball to Steve. That seems to be Steve's main problem along with driving into four defenders and making bad passes.

[SamCassell]

Bob Knight (a headcase, but a good basketball mind) said last night in a press conference something to the effect of he didn't think he'd ever had a "point guard", he just had guards. Consider that he had Isaiah Thomas on his Indiana team, a hall-of-famer. I really think the Rockets have a pair of very solid "guards" on this team, not point-guard or shooting-guard, just good players. I don't see the importance of needing a traditional 1 and 2, if you have good basketball players in those positions. Passing's an important team concept, and the burden for good playmaking shouldn't necessarily fall on one position.

[verse]

Originally posted by SamCassell Bob Knight (a headcase, but a good basketball mind) said last night in a press conference something to the effect of he didn't think he'd ever had a "point guard", he just had guards. Consider that he had Isaiah Thomas on his Indiana team, a hall-of-famer. I really think the Rockets have a pair of very solid "guards" on this team, not point-guard or shooting-guard, just good players. I don't see the importance of needing a traditional 1 and 2, if you have good basketball players in those positions. Passing's an important team concept, and the burden for good playmaking shouldn't necessarily fall on one position.

it seems to me that you're saying 1 v 2 isn't important as long as both are good "combo guards". that's ok. the problem occurs when they are not both good "combo guards", which, imo, francis is not.

isaiah thomas is one of the greatest combo guards in history. he understood and executed point guard responsibilities flawlessly, yet was able to establish himself as a constant threat to punish the other team for not respecting his individual scoring ability. he is, without a doubt, the most underrated hall of famer in nba basketball.

[SamFisher]

Originally posted by okierock JVG said before the season that he doesn't place much weight on the idea that each player needs to have a defined role ie. PG, SG, PF. But I don't see this in the product on the floor, in fact what I see is these guys are very defined in their roles. If the JVG system doesn't have defined roles and he is asking for more passing then we should, over time see this on the floor as Steve and Cat will become guards instead of SG and PG. Their stats and effectivness as floor leaders will show this change. Right now I am not seeing this evolution. Time will tell.

Thank you Okierock. I have been posting this kind of thing again and again with regard to the first part of your post.

With regard to the second part of your post, I disagree. I HAVE noticed a difference the way the Rockets play. As far as I can tell, most of the time, the extent of being a "point" guard in JVG's offense means bringing the ball up court and calling the play. Then he passes off and essentilly his job is done as far as decisionmaking goes.

For example, a common refrain of the Yao only fan is "Jim Jackson is great because he's the only one who passes to Yao and Steve won't." Well duh, many of JVG's sets call for the small forward (Jackson/Nachbar) to set up on the left wing, while Yao sets up on the left low post. Of COURSE Jackson is going to be the one who passes it to him. (BTW, I have noticed that Nachbar is HORRIBLE at this, he always panics and throws it back out to the guard rather than risking an entry pass)

In any event, my point is that Steve becomes a weakside shooter on these sets rather than working a two man game w/Yao as a traditional point guard would. In addition, I don't know if you've noticed but Steve comes off screens a LOT more now than he ever did before; finally Mobley is starting to get a glimmer of a clue as far as passing goes (witness his 8 assist game vs. Phx).

While of course all things are not clicking yet, I think there has been a definite difference in their playing style (w/the exception o f Toronto in which each player attempted to outdo Tracy Morgan by "acheiving the Isomotion" on 745 consecutive plays)

[SamCassell]

Originally posted by verse it seems to me that you're saying 1 v 2 isn't important as long as both are good "combo guards". that's ok. the problem occurs when they are not both good "combo guards", which, imo, francis is not. isaiah thomas is one of the greatest combo guards in history. he understood and executed point guard responsibilities flawlessly, yet was able to establish himself as a constant threat to punish the other team for not respecting his individual scoring ability. he is, without a doubt, the most underrated hall of famer in nba basketball.

And what, particularly, makes you think Steve's not a good combo guard? He scores, he passes, he shoots, he rebounds, he's an improved defender. He's a better matchup against point guards than shooting guards, against whom he'd give up a significant height advantage on a nightly basis.

Anyway, that wasn't exactly my point. I don't think you need to put labels on players that they then are forced to fill. Even if he didn't fit the definition of a classic "pure point guard", Isaiah was a great player. Steve's a very good player even if he doesn't fit your definition of a "combo guard". IMO you should fit your personnel around your best players, not try to fit your franchise players in little pigeon holes.