What does it mean to say that a man crossdresses? Dictionary definitions: To dress in the clothing characteristic of the opposite sex. someone who adopts the dress or manner or sexual role of the opposite sex. It would mean that he would wear "women's clothes" in order to present himself as a woman. Usually, this means that he would remove his pants, shirt and any clothes that identify him as a man, and replace them with something like a dress, pantyhose, a long-haired wig, makeup, and other clothing and accessories that would make him look like a woman. What, then, would it take for a woman to be a cross-dresser? Wouldn't it make sense to simply reverse the above statements? A cross-dressing woman would remove any clothing that identifies her as a woman, and replace them with "men's clothes" such as pants, shirt, no makeup... etc. But don't most women already do that? As you walk around in society, how often do you see a woman dressed this way? Imagine what those clothes would look like on a man. If they were "women's clothes" he'd look like a cross-dresser, right? Think to yourself, though, "would a man look like a cross-dresser if he were wearing her clothes?" As I realized this point, I have noticed more and more that most women around us are cross-dressers. As a heterosexual, married man, this pisses me off. I wouldn't expect women to enjoy seeing men dressed in "women's clothes" everywhere they went. Imagine what a typical wife's reaction would be if, one day, her husband decided to go to work in a dress. If I was attracted to masculine qualities, and people who dressed like men, I wouldn't want to be with a woman anyway. I'd go for the real thing and be gay. But that's not what I'm attracted to. Are we men supposed to not care that most women are cross-dressers? Why do women wish to give up their femininity? If you think I'm wrong, then you tell me what it would mean for a woman to be a cross-dresser. -- droxford
Why do you consider a pair of pants to be men's clothing? That seems like a pretty old fashioned concept.
I think it's just more practical to wear "men's" clothes. Jeans, pants, t-shirt, etc. are more comfortable than a dress, skirt, etc.
A big difference is that cross-dressers try to portray women. They often wear wigs and heavy makeup to conceal their gender. A female equivalent would be a woman who sports a fake mustache and a traditional man's suit along with a short-haired wig. There's a difference between a guy in a dress and make-up and a woman in jeans and a t-shirt.
Well, I personally believe that people should wear whatever they want. I wear jeans, shorts, skirts, dresses, t-shirts, blouses, etc. Whatever I feel like wearing at the moment or whatever I feel is appropriate (or appropriately inappropriate ~.^). I think the concept of "dressing like opposite sex" is pretty silly and is really just a form of social control to maintain a wall between the two societally aceptable genders. Admittedly, however, I tend not to go around in suits of anything and dress fairly "femme", but that's just how I choose to present myself. I don't go around telling men they should dress like men and that women should dress like women. And what about everyone else? All that really accomplishes is naturalizing and essentializing gender stereotypes and limits people's ability to express themselves as they see fit. As far as attraction goes, I really don't see what acting masculine and dressing like a "man" has to be with anything. They are some attractive women out there who wear guys clothes and act masculine. And for women liking guys in dresses? I personally can't get enough of those Japanese Rock bands with the pretty boys who are more beautiful than a lot of women (Mana...). Then again, I identify as pansexual and my attractions run all over the board (and sometimes off of it. ) Anyways, ultimately, I think that equating Man=Masculine and Woman=Feminine to be damaging to people and to our potential. Most people may fall into that mold, but not all of us do. People exist with all kinds of behaviours, styles, identities, and bodies that do not fit into neat boxes. And by trying to fit everyone into them, we erase people's exeperiences, legitimize certain behavious, bodies, etc., and oppress others.
There's got to be something wrong with you if you can't find a women in jeans and a t-shirt sexy. Especially if they are tight low rider jeans and a tiny stomach exposing t-shirt.
If pants aren't "men's clothing", then what is? How can we define "men's clothing" ? Yes. My point is - why is this concept fading? What makes the concept of androgeny better than its opposite (I guess we have to call it gender roles... what's the word for the opposite of androgeny)? Here's another issue: comfort. Everybody says "it's so much more comfortable to wear x". Well, ya know what's most comfortable to me? Walking around buck naked. But I have to think to myself, "Maybe people don't want to see that." We draw a line between what's comfortable and what's presentable, and I'm getting really sick of seeing people walking around in sandals and crappy, ragged clothes because it's so damn 'comfortable'. Too often, people focus on what's comfortable disregarding that they look like crap. Why the hell is androgeny so attractive to people now? Are men no longer men? Are women no longer women? What ever happened to heterosexuality?!?! Not necessarily (though this is usually true). I have been corrected in the past by some who indicate that transvestites are men who try live their lives as women, while crossdressers are also men who occasionally dress as women simply because they enjoy it, knowing that they don't really look like a woman. Years ago, it used to be that a woman wearing pants was dressed like a man. Now, a woman has to wear a suit to be a cross-dresser? Does that mean that any woman wearing a suit is a cross-dresser? A woman with short hair is one too? Well, that would explain why you don't like gender stereotypes. I wouldn't expect a pansexual person to be able to relate to my ramblings. Then there must be something wrong with me. Jeans and a T-shirt are great for mowing the yard. (acutally Jeans would be too hot in houston). A woman in jeans and a T-shirt just looks like a slob. And low-rider jeans? Please. They looked like crap in the 60's. They looked like crap in the 70's. And they look like crap now. The fad that dies a thousand deaths. -- droxford
Poor grandpa ... things just haven't been the same for you since those hussy flappers got rid of their corsets and started driving around in those new-fangled horseless carriages, huh?
droxford sounds like a crochety old man. I think what happened is he thought he saw a cute girl who was dressed casual but then found out it was a femine looking man. Obviously pissed, he's taking a stand against fomfotable dressing and demanding for people to dress according to gender, similar to the war on Polos perpetrated by B-Bob. But like B-Bob's ill concieved war, this one is doomed to fail. All I have to say is "bring em on."
Actually, I'm a 34-year-old software architect, married, with a 3-year-old daughter and another kid on the way. No, this hasn't happened to me, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did. I'm not trying to fight a war (I would certainly lose). It just pisses me off to see so many people with so little dignity. -- droxford
I've seen men wearing jeans and a t-shirt who I mistook for women. And for the most part, women can wear jeans and a t-shirt and no one gets confused. I wouldn't say that it doesn't matter what kind of clothes you wear at all, but it seems like what defines a cross dresser has more to do with whether people can easily recognize your sex than it does with the particular articles of clothing. In the case of men wearing ballroom gowns, well, they just don't make these items for men so we see that and perceive it as cross dressing. But if you saw a man in a kilt, even amoung a throng of Catholic school girls in similar uniforms, you generally don't make the mistake of thinking he's one of them. One more note, I think the issue of make-up or pants is more of a personal preference. It is acceptable in our society for women to wear pants or to not wear make-up. Some men, JV for instance, find girls with a lot of make-up to be particularly unattractive. And even if I wore his clothes, I'd have to do a great deal of serious cosmetic surgery before I could begin to pass for a man.
I knew you were 34 -- I saw it in your profile. The "grandpa" was a joke in reference to your seeming unwillingness to let go of the way things used to be. I was born in 1969 also, so I don't think 34 is definitively "old" -- it depends more on your state of mind. I'm not sure how you equate clothing styles with "dignity". Some of the most dignified people in history have worn nothing more than ragged robes. Dignity is a state of mind, not a function of outward appearance. I think the fact you find others' clothing choices so upsetting speaks volumes more about you than it does about them. Just out of curiosity, what would you prefer to see women wearing on a day-to-day basis?
"Boy the way Glen Miller played, songs that made the hit parade, guys like us we had it made, those were the days, and you know where you were then, girls were girls and men were men, mister we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again, didn't need no welfare states everybody pulled his weight, gee our old Lasalle ran great, those were the days!"
George: I just thought of a great name for myself, if I ever become a porno actor. Jerry: Oh yeah, what? "Buck Naked"? George: Yeah, how did you know that? Jerry: You told me that already like two months ago.
I think your objection to female cross-dressers is just the tip of the iceberg. What do you think of B-Bob's war on polos? Personally, I use my wardbrobe to depress the class-image others would have of me. Do you think it is undignified for me to go to church in an old Rockets t-shirt? To have car-oil stains on my jeans? What about my refusal to tuck in my shirt? Gender roles in fashion are much like these in that they are attempts to manipulate how you are perceived by others. I dress as I do because I want people to think of me a certain way. Likewise, women in sweats have a particular image they want to project. As you've said, you don't like that image. Perhaps they dress that way to weed people out who would object to it.
