The Yao skeptics on this board are doing a yaoman's job (yow! bad pun) of pointing out his flaws and puncturing the see-no-evil optimism of Yao homers like me. Time to return the favor. If the argument is that Yao poses too much risk, let's be consistent and coldly assess the risk of each proposed trade. We shouldn't delude ourselves about Yao or the alternatives. Case in point, Chad Ford's proposal: "Antonio McDyess and the No. 5 pick for Mo Taylor, Eddie Griffin, Jason Collier and the No. 1." Imagine this very plausible scenario. McDyess is injured and out of action during much of the next two seasons. Then he retires. At #5, we get a SF who struggles in his first year and thereafter plays a little better than each of the other SFs we've had on the team over the past couple of years, but not much. Next year, we're back in the lottery, but we get nothing because we have to give Memphis our pick. At that point, here's what the Houston Rockets have in the frontcourt: Nada. The backcourt guys see no future and start bailing out. Having fun yet? Beware playing it "safe."
Will, good points. But who the hell would make that trade? McDyess is shot. Camby is the only other person on this planet more fragile than McDyess.
Well certainly that trade should be rejected. IMHO the NBA draft is one big crap shoot. You have better odds at Vegas. The problem with Yao Ming is that he has greater than normal risks. Compare the risks associated with him compared with the risks associated with last year's number one. The way to success in any venture is to take the acceptable risk (the most return for the least amount of risk). Ove the next month the Rockets are going to have to decide which risk makes the most sense. I expect that trade offers will get quite interesting and hopefully they will have a better opportunity to assess Yao's skills and the Chinese government's willingness to negotiate in good faith. At that point we will simply have to have faith that the Rockets organization will make the right choice.
You cannot compare Yao's risk to any other situation in nba history. Usually the risks are with a players skills, not if his mommies call him home!! If Ming is ORDERED HOME because one of his 8 governing parties does not like the minutes Rudy is giving Ming - DOES THAT MAKE HIM A BUST? If Ming is ORDERED HOME because our selfish guards will not include him in the offense (regulary) - DOES THAT MAKE HIM A BUST? If Ming is ORDERED HOME because the news media is knocking him for being soft (see Wang) - DOES THAT MAKE HIM A BUST? Nobody doubts that he might make it in the NBA. He dominated China, and so did Wang - BUT WE ARE NOT DEALING WITH A PLAYERS SKILLS - we are dealing with a 21st century slave (to multiple masters). Unless he can find a way to part ways with them (doubtful) he will always be a slave. Well at least he gets to keep 20% of his salary.
Barbourdg exactly my point. And yes fro thr Rockets point of view all thsoe situations will make him a bust or at least a seriously blown opportunity. The Rockets are goignt o have to get some concerssions from Yao's myriad of agents, representatives groupies handlers etc .etc Maybe even soem assurances from the league for some sort of draft compensation should any of your scenarios occur
This trade made possible by the same management that gave you Glen Rice. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
That was a bad trade proposal that Insider suggested. If Eddie Griffin were in this draft, where would he go? Would you trade him for the 5th pick? I don't know .... maybe some would. I don't think I would. Denver essentially gives up McDyess and in return gets to move up 4 spots in the draft to the #1 pick, gets a potential All-Star in Griffin and takes on the contract of Mo Taylor (but he is still a good and young power forward). Maybe in the views of some this is something for both teams, but Denver is going <B>nowhere</B>, and has <B>nothing</B> aside from this 5th pick and McDyess, who just came off an injury-plagued season. McDyess was not super effective after returning, went back to the pine with injury and has suggested before he may want out of Denver (and this is his final contract year). Why would the Rockets give a team within their division a jumpstart on their rebuilding program by giving them Ming/Griffin/Taylor or Williams/Griffin/Taylor when currently it's going to take the Nuggets a year just to get <I>started</I> on putting the pieces in place (and they're banking on nothing more than the lure of cap room).
Clutch, IMO, I wouldn't trade him for the #5. If Eddie was coming off another good year at Seton Hall, there is a damn good chance, given our situation at the 3 and the 4, he would be the 1st pick in the draft. I think what people aren't realizing is that we are going to basically have a "new" player next year in Eddie. With a year under his belt, his improvement alone could end up being the equivalent of adding a seasoned vet.
Clutch - good point. This is also the problem I have with giving up the #1 pick to obtain Odom. The Clipps are a talented team without him. Ming and Brand are alot to contend with inside. I personally favor keeping Ming, but if we do trade let's make sure he goes to the EC.
I still think that Denver would take that trade sans Griffin. Then I'd have to think long and hard about that.
It seems like people are forgetting that we already have our McDyess in Griffin. The rebuilding was finished last year. Francis and Griffin, two big pieces. The rest is just fill-in-the-gaps type stuff. Do you think that LA sat around and said "Okay, we've got Shaq and Bryant, the only thing keeping us from the next level is...a small forward!" Heck no. You can plug in anyone into the other three spots, it doesn't matter. That's the Rockets' situation. They've got Francis and Griffin...their long-term success right now (prior to this draft) depends solely on those guys' improvement, not adding "our future SF", or our "future 5". The only thing that could possibly improve their long-term chances, in my opinion, is to add a new best player. The only possible new best player available for the Rockets is Yao Ming.
TheFreak I agree with you. IMHO a team only needs two stars. The tricky part is finding the hard working guys who scrap for rebounds and realize that they are not the stars of the team. The support cast needs to be able to hit the shots created for them by the stars. (Prediction: Mobley is going to have a hard time dealing with the fact that he is not one of those two guys but if he ever settles in to a supporting or sixth man role then he may find basketball nirvana). If we draft Yao then we need to focus on finding those junkyard dog types of guys rather than selcting another "potential/huge upside type". We need a Ben Wallace clone or maybe we can splice his DNA to Barkleys and have the unltimate rebounder. Once the Rockets have decided what to do with the first round pick every effort should be made to shore up our rebounding, defense and intensity. We alreasy have a buch of guys that want to take the shot but nobody wants to go after the misses; that won't cut it.
CLUTCH/JEFF/etc... Anyword on workouts? I keep hearing about workouts in other cities, but not Houston. At this point Woods & Bulter have already made their way through westside.
Imagine this scenario. The Rockets pull off the trade, McDyess enters his prime at the age of 28, and is rejuvenated by playing with a talented young team with his former Olympic coach who helps him turn the corner of superstardom. McDyess is in full bloom as Francis becomes an All-NBA performer with Mobley filling his role as they climb the Western Conference ladder with a promising Qyntel Woods flashing signs of McGradyesque superstardom. Within 3 years we secure a top 4 seed with all pistons firing and an aging Laker team is dismantled by a flury of Francis brilliance and McDyess domination backed up by sparkling small forward play and a resilient Cuttino Mobley knifing through an old flat footed Laker squad. Kobe and Grandpa O'Neal cannot be saved by any last second Horry daggers as they are overwhelmed by an athletic fearsome foursome unlike any in the league and the Rockets take the title.
Bingo. Mobley is a solid player who's trying (and being asked) to play a role bigger than he's capable of. So if you're not going to draft Yao, show me somebody else we can get in a fair and plausible trade who can get Mobley the shots he needs.
I don't think ANYONE has ever proposed the #1 for Odom. Odom is the number one player I want to get this offseason, but even I wouldn't trade him for the #1. They'd have to take something big off of us, while swapping our 15th with their 12th. Then we're maybe getting somehwere. Also, McDyess is NOT injury prone. This is the first time he's missed time with a serious injury. In his career, these are the number fo games he's played: 76 74 81 50 (lockout) 81 70 10 (this season) Those are pretty good numbers. Still, I wouldn't do that deal. Antonio McDyess and the No. 5 pick for Mo Taylor, Eddie Griffin, Jason Collier and the No. 1 Basically, they're not losing McDyess, just getting a younger, more potential-filled version. Oh, and Griffin is under contract for 3 mroe seasons, by which time they'll be rebuilt. So basically, Mo Taylor, Collier and #1 for #5? LOOOL! That's laughable. But I'd almost definitely do this if they threw ni their next year's top pick. If they swapped Torres and T-mo for Posey, then I'd be further swayed. Point being, that deal is off base. I think we should work with Milwaukee. #1, KT, Cato has to look good to them, right? But for what?
We are all slaves, but under only one master. He has a lot of different names; the dollar, the yen.....
Thank you, Freak. What people aren't considering, is that this isn't a talent-less roster. If were in the position of the Bulls of a few years ago (before Brand, after Pippen) and our roster's best player was based around uh...Toni Kukoc. It'd be another story. But we have: a.) an all star PG that's 25 years old. b.) a 20 ppg SG that's 26 years old, and on a bargain contract. c.) A future stud PF that's 20 years old, on a rookie contract. d.) A solid, 14-7 PF, 26 years old on a cheap contract e.) A solid 15-6 PF, 27 years old, signed long term Francis, Mobley, Griffin, Thomas, Taylor. Morris is a fine puzzle piece type player, Rice can probably play 20 MPG the next 2 years, Moochie is one of the better backup PGs in the league (though I'd prefer a more defensive oriented, or a leader type like Avery Johnson), plus Cato is an above average backup center. Adding a bunch of roleplayers is inconsequential. One big piece is better than a bunch of little pieces. Once you get Ming, you have 5 big men: Ming, Taylor, Cato, Thomas, Griffin. Ming and Griffin are the future starters, and Thomas is likely the odd one out because he's most movable. Our starting backcourt is set with Francis-Mobley. We may need to pick up a backup shooting guard like Torres, and keep around a 3rd PG, but that's getting into Serge Zwikkers. We need a starting SF...yes. But Rice will likely start the next 2 years, even if he doesn't get the lion's share of minutes, and Morris can be a fine 3/4 type off the bench. We have the #15 pick, that if packaged with KT is a fine package to move up, or out for a young future starter, via draft or trade. The SF position is DEEP in the top 15-Dunleavy, Butler, Tskitishvili, Woods, Jeffries, Nachbar. SIX could go in the top 15. I don't think Ming really takes a lot of shots away from anyone for another 2-3 years. He's apparently a really good offensive rebounder, and has excellent touch for putbacks. I see him as the safety valve of the offense at first-get it to him if we can't get a shot, or the defense is swarming. His passing skills fit PERFECTLY on this team. He has excellent hands, and I've seen clips of him finishing alley-oops. We have 2 years to get a SF. It's not a difficult issue-we can get Nachbar this year, and even if he has to play in Europe another year, he'll be ready by the year after, and we'll be closer to competing. Clutch gave the best reason we won't swing a major deal with Denver-they're in-divisional rivals. No way do you give your rivals Ming or Williams and Griffin, unless it makes you a championship team. I'm not sure that makes a contender to get to the 2nd round.
