Is Vince Carter good enough to be a SUPERstar?

Rockets R' Us · 03-13-2002, 05:59 PM

Long disscussed in other threads, never made by itself a topic. I think its damn near time. Will VC be a Superstar? What is your definition of a superstar? And, has he risen or declined in the last 2 years compared to the 2 years before that. My answers are as follows:

Superstar? No, all he has is hops.....sure you can see "oh but that 15-18 foot jumper!" Yea, 15-18% of the time.

Definition? Gotta be able to carry a team by self to victory, gotta be good ALL-AROUND. Defense, Offense, Rebounding, Assisting, off court and on court. I know theres some exceptions to this like Barkley's off-court comments, Kobe's fights, etc. but you gotta have at least 80% of it right.

Has he risen or declined? I really don't know. But, I do think he has declined since last year. I know he was injured and stuff but look at others. Shaq, Kobe, Stevie, all were injured, all came back and had there averages on lock.

TroyBaros · 03-13-2002, 06:23 PM

I do not feel Lenny Wilkins is right for this team. This team is run and gun and lenny is old school who believes more in defense and passing.
I think Vince is being held down by lenny.

BTM · 03-13-2002, 07:44 PM

You're saying Steve Francis is more of a superstar than Vince? Come on, cut the homer crap...

Vince is playing injured now. He has a quad injury, a back problem and a knee ailment in the same leg that has the quad injury.

People say he's soft but he's played through more injuries this year than Kobe, T-Mac, Ivy, etc. Can't say Steve b/c those migraines are constant.

Vince is playing around 70% right now and it shows. The only reason he is playing now is because the Raptors have shown they can't win w/o him(0-7 on stint he was injured).

I agree with Troy completly though, and I also think the Raptors not being able to win w/o Vince is a sign they don't want to play for Lenny.

haven · 03-13-2002, 07:48 PM

BTM:

Let's see. The Rockets are in a harder conference, yet their record with Francis isn't much worse than the Raptors' with Vince.

And I'd say that hte Raptors have more talent surrounding him.

I happen to think that Carter's probably better than Francis. But he hasn't done much to prove it, this year. And in the end, that's what counts.

Rockets R' Us · 03-13-2002, 07:57 PM

Ok, then, say we wipe this year off the board because you Carter lovers think that he had too many injuries too deal with. Fine I'll give you that. But let's take last year. Was Vince better than Kobe? McGrady? Ray Allen? Vince, is just a product of mass NBA/ Nike Marketing because of his striking similarity to Jordan in height, physique, and face(goti, bald). What can Vince really do besides dunk?? He decided to bow out of the last 2 dunk contests because he wanted to show that he was an "all-around player" and he wanted to show that he did more than just dunk.....I ain't seen nothin yet.

mfclark · 03-13-2002, 09:30 PM

He is a superstar. He's not amongst the elite, though - not now.

Does he have the talent? Certainly.

The desire? Questionable. He's not showing it.

DieHard Rocket · 03-13-2002, 11:08 PM

Carter is not a superstar, at least not yet. Personally, I think he is one of the most overrated guys in the NBA. Right now, I'd say that he and Steve are about at the same level of stardom. But, when it's all said and done, I think Steve will be thought of as a better player.

Carter doesn't have the ability to just carry a team, ala Jordan, Shaq, probably Duncan and soon to be Mcgrady. I doubt he's even one of the top 10 in the game.

rocketfish · 03-13-2002, 11:09 PM

Vince Cater is a SELL-OUT

end of story

ROXTXIA · 03-14-2002, 09:30 AM

Carter is playing with a bum leg, it's true, but I don't know about him, he just seems apathetic. And it's true, Lenny isn't the right coach for him. Two no-emotion guys, coach and superstar? Get Van Gumby.

TradeMan12 · 03-14-2002, 03:02 PM

"People say he's soft but he's played through more injuries this year than Kobe, T-Mac, Ivy, etc. "

More then McGrady? Please.. McGrady played with a bad back for the entire season, hes played on two pulled groins, wrist banged up, hip, played threw illiness too. He's missed 6-7 games this year.

Carter is softer then a pillow. He shoots more 3pts then Free Throws, he takes 5-6 threes a game. He leaves games from minor injuries. 3 of the 4 games vs Orlando this year, he had to leave due to a injury. The worst part is he lays on the ground for like 10 mins like he just broke his neck. Dude is SOFT!

BTM · 03-14-2002, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by haven
BTM:

Let's see. The Rockets are in a harder conference, yet their record with Francis isn't much worse than the Raptors' with Vince.

And I'd say that hte Raptors have more talent surrounding him.

I happen to think that Carter's probably better than Francis. But he hasn't done much to prove it, this year. And in the end, that's what counts.

Oh don't gimme this harder conference crap. The Raptors had a winning record vs. the West when Carter was healthy. They also were 9 games over .500 at the break I believe, and then Carter got hurt.

The Raptors don't have more talent than the Rocks. They don't have a 2nd option, they don't have a super-rookie and they don't have a real PG. They got a bunch of overpaid roleplayers and a few young talents like Keon Clark or Mo Peterson.

Trademan, Carter has been playing on one leg since the all-star break. I've seen the kind of bigoted and trollish crap you've posted on ESPN so I won't try and change your mind(if you have one).

Why is Vince a sell-out? Who did he sell out to?

JayZ750 · 03-14-2002, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rockets R' Us
But let's take last year. Was Vince better than Kobe? McGrady? Ray Allen? Vince, is just a product of mass NBA/ Nike Marketing because of his striking similarity to Jordan in height, physique, and face(goti, bald). What can Vince really do besides dunk??

He had even less of a supporting cast than A.I. did yet almost knocked them out of the playoffs. I'd say Carter did a pretty good job carrying his team last year.

The Raptors problem is not Vince Carter. It is the team as a whole. He certainly didn't play soft when they came here. Carter had, what, 40 something points, and some clutch baskets in the end. He didn't have enough help though.

TexasG · 03-14-2002, 06:09 PM

BTM · 03-14-2002, 07:36 PM

You need a schooling in how shoe deals work these days. Incredible highschool prospects like Kobe, Tracy McGrady or Darius Miles go to schools like Mt Zion where they get signed into shoe deals before they're even in the NBA. Carter didn't have that. Kobe, McGrady and Miles did. I wouldn't be surprised if Tracy left Toronto because Adidas wanted him to.

So who really is selling out?

Rockets R' Us · 03-14-2002, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BTM

The Raptors don't have more talent than the Rocks. They don't have a 2nd option, they don't have a super-rookie and they don't have a real PG.

Wha wha? Hold up lets compare the rosters:

Rocks:

PG
__
Stevie Franchise
Moochie Norris
Tierre Brown

SG
___

Cuttino Mobley
Oscar Torres
Steve Francis

SF
__

Walt Williams
Glen Rice
Oscar Torres
Cuttino Mobley
Eddie Griffin
Dan Langhi
Terrence Morris

PF
__

Kevin Willis
Dan Langhi
Maurice Taylor
Kenny Thomas

C
__

Kevin Willis
Maurice Taylor
Kenny Thomas
Jason Collier
Kelvin Cato

Raptors:

PG
__

Chris Childs
Alvin Williams

SG
__

Jermaine Jackson
Dell Curry
Vince Carter

SF
__

Morris Peterson
Jerome Williams
Vince Carter
Tracy Murray
Michael Bradley

PF
__

Keon Clark
Michael Bradley
Jerome Williams
Antonio Davis

C
__

Hakeem Olajuwon
Eric Montross
Keon Clark
Mamadou N'Diaye
Michael Stewart
Antonio Davis

I think the Raptors have more depth, and talent, while the Rockets have to subsitute players to play 2-3 positions sometimes. VC should be playing well regardless of wheter hes scoring or not because he has so many people to assist to or recieve assists from.

emoreland · 03-15-2002, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Carter doesn't have the ability to just carry a team, ala Jordan, Shaq, probably Duncan and soon to be Mcgrady. I doubt he's even one of the top 10 in the game.

Look, Jordan had Pippen, Shaq has Kobe, Duncan has Robinson, McGrady has Miller. WHO DOES CARTER HAVE? Dream? Clark? Alvin Williams? Antonio Davis?

Face it, carter has NO ONE. He has to carry a team that was overhyped to begin with and has underachieved. They got paid, and I think they've left Carter to shoulder the work.

At least Francis has Mobley.

And another thing. Ive seen Carters jumper, and believe me, he is the only one who can guard it. He can get his shot off anytime he wants it. He has an above-average jump shot.

Give Vince another scorer (Dell Curry doesnt count

) and I can guarantee you will see a great improvement in his game. No one, not even the supposed great MJ, can do it alone.

Rockets R' Us · 03-15-2002, 08:04 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong but, wasn't there this guy named "Tracy McGrady" who was quite good when in Toronto? Did the Raptors make the playoffs....after he left? And what about that other guy that was going to replace McGrady...Mo Pete....never happened.

TradeMan12 · 03-15-2002, 12:32 PM

"Oh don't gimme this harder conference crap. The Raptors had a winning record vs. the West when Carter was healthy. They also were 9 games over .500 at the break I believe, and then Carter got hurt.

The Raptors don't have more talent than the Rocks. They don't have a 2nd option, they don't have a super-rookie and they don't have a real PG. They got a bunch of overpaid roleplayers and a few young talents like Keon Clark or Mo Peterson. "

I think they were 8 games over .500. But that doesn't mean anything. You guys had a easy schedule that month. You guys had a lot of players banged up, but soo have many teams in the league. Your Raptor fans act like its only Vince that played hurt. Shaq, TMAC, Kobe, Pierce, Stackhouse, Iverson, have all played many games this year hurt. I've read articles where Magic players have said that TMAC has only been heathly for 10 games the entire year(back spasms)..that was back in January tho..

The Raptors are in the East and cant make the playoffs. Vince has been playing bad like this all year, he shot at 42% all year. Your probably a Vince Carter fan, so you'll never say a bad thing about him no matter what.

BTM · 03-15-2002, 04:58 PM

25.5ppg w/ 5 rebounds and 4 assists a game is a BAD YEAR? Trademan, you're nuts.

Vince has been playing bad all year. LOL WHat a fool.

ZRB · 03-15-2002, 05:06 PM

Carter certainly has superstar talent, but he hasn't used it since that Philly series. He has become too relaxed, too soft. How often do you see the guy go 6-25 these days? Carter needs to start attacking the rim again. His outside jumper is now his go-to move, and it is hurting his play, and the team.