30 for 30 Bad Boys

Basically, Bird was a bad ass mother****er and Rodman/Isiah couldn't handle it so they went to the race card.

 

Rodman has always been messed in the head so he probably believed the words he said. Thomas is one of the biggest competitors the league has known and was salty from getting owned by Bird & the Celtics so he likely just agreed in the heat of the moment, but I really doubt he believed it. He knew & respected Bird.

The Badboy Pistons were a pretty damn good team but that style of "physical" play set back basketball for many, many years.

 

It's posted in the general 30 for 30 thread in the Hangout.
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=183624&page=4


The story was in the actual documentary, they discussed it. Rodman and Isaiah discussed it.

 

Rodman basically said that if Bird was black he would be just a guy and Thomas backed him on it and then the **** hit the fan.

 

And Isiah Thomas tried to backtrack on his comments saying he was being sarcastic, and it just got worse. I don't know why they didn't ask Bill Laimbeer what he thought about those comments in the documentary.

 

Different era in these times.

 

I the latest edition of "Open Court" Isiah is on the panel and when asked who had the best jumpshot that he had ever seen he answered "Larry Bird". Later in the show he was asked if he could pick one player to run a pick and roll with who would it be? Again he answered "Larry Bird".

 

Good documentary to show some of you young bucks who compare players from different eras to modern day players. It does a great job showing how much more physical the NBA was back in the 80's-mid 90's before they started cracking down and instituting new rules. (Not trying to start a new debate...yes players like LeBron would still have destroyed the 80's-90's NBA)

 

Saw my boy Micheal Williams a few times. Held his championship ring a couple times.

 

Definitely must see this. But from those Bad Boy clips, to watching last nites game was like two different sports. The NBA is beyond soft it's almost unwatchable now

 

Lebron would be fine.

Most of the current "elite" PG's would be out of a job. No way combo guards like Rose or Westbrook survive the sort of punishment that guys like Mahorn and Laimbeer were dishing out.

It was a different age, and Basketball was a full contact sport. Heck, they didn't even have "flagrant" fouls back then... you either took the hit or you got off the court.

Did the Bad Boys and Riley's ugly ball go too far? I think it all depends on your personal point of view. Though I do know a LOT of NBA fans at the time absolutely Hated the Pistons.

Personally, I loved Laimbeer's get in your opponent's head, the Paint is a no-fly zone attitude... :grin:

 

So Isiah Thomas has always been a poor talent evaluator? Makes sense

 

my thoughts exactly. not that i want a return to this style of play, but the polar opposite isn't great either. this 30 for 30 definitely made watching these playoffs more frustrating to watch.

 

Of Isiah's many weaknesses, being a talent evaluator wasn't one of them. He actually had a very solid track record in terms of drafting talent.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/55772/isiah-thomas-ranked-best-draft-gm

Was he the BEST drafting GM in the NBA? Debatable for sure. Was he bad at it? Not in the slightest.

When it comes to evaluating draft talent, you could actually argue that Isiah was very good to Elite.

 

Bird #2 GOAT.

Those guys aren't known for their judgment.

 

I loved this... watched it twice. I love Bill Laimbeer. LOVE.

 

I watched in on the flight home from Chicago last week. Very entertaining. Big fan of the 30 for 30 series.

 

I wish people would stop perpetuating this myth ... what was a little physical has now become a full contact sport, which is almost like comparing it to football, rugby, or hockey...it was never that physical in nature. It could rough out inside the paint. You couldn't be swinging elbows; throwing people into the ground; or wrestling ... you could've been thrown out of the game for illegal moves. The rule changes wouldn't effect most of elite guys, like LeBron, Dwight, or Durant. I agree, it would come with more marginal starters and etc. But it was more physica than most other sports, it still is in high school or internationally. It's kind of weird people throw the soft notion on Euro players, even though the Euro leagues tend to call less fouls than NBA.

Laimbeer...one of biggest floppers in league history, good player, but fans and players now would hate him as much as they did then, because of his dirty tactics. People often cite that it shows hard work or unorthodox way of playing, but in reality it does interrupt quality play, well tuned offense (Lakers vs. Celtics), which were the two teams the Pistons couldn't get past, initially.

 

You're clearly not old enough. They flagrant foul rule prior to 1991 was a complete joke. It was only changed in 1991 -- much of it in direct response to the Bad Boy Pistons.

Here are some of the original contact rules...

1976-77
• Excessive and/or vigorous swinging of the elbows, without contact, is a violation.
• Any player who engages in a fight is subject to a fine of $10,000 and a suspension.
This went into effect March 7, 1977.

1977-78
• Fine increased from $100 to $150 for a player not in the game who does not remain in the vicinity of his team’s bench during a fight.

1984-85
• Fine increased from $150 to $500 for a player not in the game who does not remain in the vicinity of his team’s bench during a fight.

1990-91
• Penalties for flagrant fouls increased such that an infraction is penalized by two free throw attempts and possession of the ball out-of-bounds. The offender may also be ejected if there is no apparent effort to play the ball and/or, in the official’s judgment, the contact was of such an excessive nature that an injury could have occurred. Ejected players will be automatically fined $250.

1993 Playoffs
• Any player who throws a punch now immediately ejected from the game, suspended for at least one game, and fined an appropriate dollar amount. Any player throwing a punch that connects with another player will be ejected from the game, suspended for a minimum of one to five games, and fined an appropriate dollar amount. Teams will also be fined an amount equal to the total sum of their players’ fines. Any player leaving the bench area during a fight will be fined $2,500, up from $500, and that player’s team will be fined $5,000 for each of its players who leave the bench area.

1993-94
• “Five-point” flagrant foul rule implemented whereby if a player’s season total exceeds five points, he receives an automatic suspension following the game in which his point total exceeds five and for each additional flagrant foul committed during the season.

Prior to 1976/77 there was no penalty for "swinging elbows" violently.

Prior to 1990/91 the rules for flagrant fouls were considerably looser.

You weren't ejected for throwing a punch prior to 1993 unless it became a full on fight. Ejections weren't common unless a full fight broke out. And prior to 1993/94 there was no automatic suspension for Flagrant Fouls.

Clearly you either have forgotten how many times they bumped, pulled, elbowed, clotheslined and did other harsh moves with nothing more than a regular or flagrant foul, or you're simply not old enough to remember it clearly.

I refer you to the actual article from SI regarding Bill Laimbeer and the "new" flagrant foul rules in November 1990...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1136246/1/index.htm

For all the hard contact, Laimbeer was ONLY ejected twice over 810 games. This is a guy notorious for delivering hip checks, elbows, throw downs, pushes, clotheslines, etc.

Don't confuse the early 90's with the late 80's. The game changed considerably. And even then it was a LOT more physical in the 1990's than the stuff we see today.

They didn't get ejected for THIS foul...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhQyaKWsQy8

Or THIS foul...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jBWiol12SA

Or THIS foul...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgOhUELRrRg

And they didn't eject Kevin McHale for doing THIS foul to Kurt Rambis in 1984...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7r6vXeOfyQ

The NBA was a very, VERY different game.