ClutchFans
ClutchFans
ClutchFans Latest:
Rockets honored Dwight agreement with agent in letting Parsons out of his contract
J.R. is offline Old 09-17-2013, 11:50 AM   #1
J.R.
Contributing Member
J.R. is Hakeem Olajuwon -- reputation is pure goldJ.R. is Hakeem Olajuwon -- reputation is pure goldJ.R. is Hakeem Olajuwon -- reputation is pure goldJ.R. is Hakeem Olajuwon -- reputation is pure goldJ.R. is Hakeem Olajuwon -- reputation is pure goldJ.R. is Hakeem Olajuwon -- reputation is pure goldJ.R. is Hakeem Olajuwon -- reputation is pure goldJ.R. is Hakeem Olajuwon -- reputation is pure goldJ.R. is Hakeem Olajuwon -- reputation is pure goldJ.R. is Hakeem Olajuwon -- reputation is pure goldJ.R. is Hakeem Olajuwon -- reputation is pure gold
Since: Jun 2008
Posts: 32,055
Member: #32628
    Reply With Quote
quote:
It's been just a month since we ranked the top players by position, and since we're still biding our time until teams report to training camp, it's still the season for projections and rankings. At this point of the offseason, we have a pretty good idea of what the main components of each team's rotation are going to be once the new season tips off. To be sure, there will be tweaks from preseason developments, plus an unpleasant injury or two, but by and large we can turn our attention to figuring out how the revamped teams are going to fit together.

With that in mind, let's look at some unit rankings, beginning today with backcourts across the NBA. We'll do the frontcourts later this week.

An important note: The list is based on 2013-14 projected WARP as forecast by ATH, my system for generating performance based on trait matching, athletic indicators and aging curves. At the bottom line, WARP is primarily a function of the quality and quantity of a player's production, so these rankings take into account not just how well ATH thinks a player will play but how often.

The combined unit WARP is based on the projections for each team's probable starting guards, plus its top reserve. So again, this is looking ahead, not at last season.

1. Houston Rockets | Combined WARP: 22.6
James Harden, Patrick Beverley, Jeremy Lin

Surprised? Well, remember that elite players in the NBA generate such a disproportionate amount of a team's production that unit rankings will invariably be dominated by star performers. So it is with the Rockets, who landed a big man as the jewel of the current offseason yet still project to have the league's most valuable backcourt. The rating is of course driven by MVP candidate Harden, now entering his age-24 season, and it's somewhat speculative given the optimism about Beverley despite his short track record.

One of Houston's key questions entering the season is whether Beverley or Lin fits better as Harden's primary partner. In the playoffs this past spring, Lin and Harden played together for 70.2 minutes, per Basketball-Reference.com, during which Houston was outscored by 28.7 points per 100 possessions. However, Harden teamed with Beverley for 172.4 minutes and the Rockets outscored opposing Oklahoma City by seven points per 100 possessions. We'll see whether those results hold up in preseason play and affect Kevin McHale's formulation of his new rotation.

2. San Antonio Spurs | Combined WARP: 21.9
Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, Danny Green

An oldie but a goodie! ATH is forecasting a bit of a decline for Parker, which led to a lot of consternation about my point guard rankings last month. Parker isn't projected to drop off a cliff or anything; the system just doesn't see him repeating his MVP-caliber season. However, even if that happens, the Spurs' backcourt has more than enough production and chemistry to remain one of the NBA's top units. San Antonio also has fine depth beyond this trio in Cory Joseph, Marco Belinelli, Nando de Colo and Patty Mills.

3. Miami Heat | Combined WARP: 21.3
Dwyane Wade, Mario Chalmers, Ray Allen

Although Wade is reaching a tenuous age for shooting guards, particularly one with his long history of rough-and-tumble play, ATH doesn't see his per-possession performance becoming an issue this season. I am projecting Wade to play fewer minutes as Miami seeks to avoid wearing him down before the playoffs and risking a repeat of last spring's up-and-down postseason performance. Otherwise, Miami might rank even higher. Chalmers, with his ability to shoot the open 3, defend opposing point guards and hawk the ball in Miami's pressure-based system, is a perfect complement not just for Wade but for LeBron James. Allen has long been the perfect complement for just about anybody.

4. Los Angeles Clippers | Combined WARP: 19.8
Chris Paul, J.J. Redick, Jamal Crawford

The Clippers might have climbed a spot if newcomer Jared Dudley were coded as a guard, but L.A.'s depth chart construction suggests he'll be playing more 3 than 2. The Clippers' ranking is driven by Paul's 15.7 WARP. Redick is a perfect complement off the ball, and Crawford is one of the league's top sixth men. This dynamic combination doesn't even include summer acquisition Darren Collison, who borders on overqualified when it comes to being a backup.

5. Los Angeles Lakers | Combined WARP: 17.0
Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash, Jodie Meeks

Even with a conservative games-played projection, Bryant is forecast to again lead the Lakers in WARP, with Pau Gasol and Nash trailing close behind. Meeks is a plus role player who nevertheless couldn't nudge Steve Blake out of the Lakers' rotation when the latter was healthy. The Lakers have other plus guards in Blake and Jordan Farmar, but before fans out west get too excited, I urge you to wait until you see the frontcourt rankings later this week.

6. Indiana Pacers | Combined WARP: 15.5
Paul George, George Hill, C.J. Watson

Indiana's ranking is dependent upon Danny Granger reclaiming the bulk of the minutes at 3, thus pushing George to the backcourt. George is a standout wherever he plays; Hill isn't spectacular, but he's consistent and fits well with Indiana's style and culture; Watson is an upgrade off the bench after last season's disappointing combined output from D.J. Augustin and Gerald Green. Notable by his absence is last season's starting 2, Lance Stephenson. As high as the Pacers are on Stephenson, at this point his playing time has been based more on fit than production, an arrangement that won't hold up if Granger is healthy and/or Stephenson doesn't improve.

7. Denver Nuggets | Combined WARP: 15.4
Ty Lawson, Nate Robinson, Evan Fournier

The Nuggets' solid backcourt outlook has me nervous. I'm confident that Lawson (7.9 WARP) will remain one of Denver's top players and in the upper half of NBA point guards. Although I like Fournier from a statistical and a scouting perspective, he has to win the job at 2 from veteran Randy Foye. If that doesn't happen, it'll be a sign that things aren't going well in Denver. Robinson has performed efficiently in each of the past two seasons with Golden State and Chicago. He'll be battling Andre Miller for the role of off-the-bench spark plug under new coach Brian Shaw. That's another case to be monitored: Will Shaw opt for the potential of production over the safety net suggested by the "proven veteran"?

8. Dallas Mavericks | Combined WARP: 14.7
Jose Calderon, Monta Ellis, Devin Harris

Dallas' all-new backcourt has a solid collective track record, if not a spot-free one with the addition of Ellis. We'll see how these players fit together as a tandem and in Rick Carlisle's system, but at least the baseline of production is there.

9. Minnesota Timberwolves | Combined WARP: 14.3
Ricky Rubio, Kevin Martin, Jose Barea

A year removed from his knee injury, if Rubio takes a big developmental step, he'll vault Minnesota's backcourt into the top five and the Timberwolves into the playoffs. If Martin shoots the deep ball well, he'll fit with Rubio, and Barea remains an ideal bench igniter. Alexey Shved and Corey Brewer also figure to be positive contributors to this group.

10. Portland Trail Blazers | Combined WARP: 14.3
Damian Lillard, Wesley Matthews, Mo Williams

Don't forget about rookie C.J. McCollum, who helps give Portland's backcourt group a whole lot of upside. Lillard is forecast to regress just a little, if only because he'd be hard-pressed to lead the league in minutes once again, especially given the depth around him in the backcourt. The one concern about this group's fit is whether the proven combo guard skills of Williams are redundant to the potential combo guard skills of McCollum, thus limiting the first-year playing time of the latter.

Near misses

• The No. 11 Oklahoma City Thunder have a star in Russell Westbrook, a defensive specialist in Thabo Sefolosha and a bunch of question marks.

• The No. 12 Golden State Warriors have a bona fide star in Stephen Curry, but with Jarrett Jack gone, the Warriors need Klay Thompson to round out his game. Andre Iguodala figures to be a 3 in the Warriors' rotation.

• No backcourt has longer individual track records than the Brooklyn Nets' (No. 13) Deron Williams, Jason Terry and Joe Johnson, but the latter two are reaching the wrong end of the aging timeline.

• Look out for the Washington Wizards (No. 14) if Glen Rice Jr. develops into an efficient complement to go with John Wall and Bradley Beal.

• No, we didn't forget about the No. 21 Chicago Bulls. First, we have to be conservative with Derrick Rose's playing time projection. Second, although Jimmy Butler is developing into an elite role player, there is only below-replacement production forecast after that from aging Kirk Hinrich and Mike James, as well as raw perimeter players Marquis Teague and Tony Snell.
 
Sponsored Link
LCAhmed is offline Old 09-17-2013, 11:51 AM   #2
LCAhmed
Contributing Member
LCAhmed is Calvin Murphy -- loud and loved hereLCAhmed is Calvin Murphy -- loud and loved hereLCAhmed is Calvin Murphy -- loud and loved hereLCAhmed is Calvin Murphy -- loud and loved hereLCAhmed is Calvin Murphy -- loud and loved hereLCAhmed is Calvin Murphy -- loud and loved hereLCAhmed is Calvin Murphy -- loud and loved here
Since: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,080
Member: #44232
    Reply With Quote
WARP is WACK, but in this instance, I'll take it.
 
rocketsfeeva is offline Old 09-17-2013, 11:53 AM   #3
rocketsfeeva
Member
rocketsfeeva is Chandler Parsons -- lookin' mighty finerocketsfeeva is Chandler Parsons -- lookin' mighty finerocketsfeeva is Chandler Parsons -- lookin' mighty fine
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,504
Member: #50202
    Reply With Quote
Nuggets, Mavs, and Timberwolves higher than Golden State? Don't agree with that but Rockets are on top
 
Haymitch is online now Old 09-17-2013, 11:54 AM   #4
Haymitch
Contributing Member
Haymitch is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsHaymitch is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsHaymitch is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsHaymitch is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsHaymitch is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsHaymitch is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsHaymitch is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsHaymitch is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsHaymitch is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsHaymitch is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsHaymitch is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boards
Since: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,649
Member: #16399
    Reply With Quote
Nice. But I would have thought CP3 and the gang would be above Miami and/or SAS.
 
dobro1229 is offline Old 09-17-2013, 12:27 PM   #5
dobro1229
Contributing Member
dobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boards
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 9,359
Member: #45354
    Reply With Quote
Woah.... for a team whose backcourt studs where the soul driving force of their team (that caused alot of teams headaches in the last half of the season & playoffs), I would have expected Golden State to be at least in the top 5 in WARP.

I wouldn't have thought that losing Jack really wouldn't have depleted their production that much, but I guess the amount of minutes he played last year made his production seem irreplaceable to the computer.

Also not surprised Houston is in the top 3 here because of the whole reason why Morey & co. were drawn to these two (and now 3) guards in the first place.

But are they truly the best backcourt in the league right now.... I think its yet to be seen if Lin can elevate his game beyond what it was (which was pretty good) in the last 3 months of the season.
 
hikanoo49 is offline Old 09-17-2013, 12:35 PM   #6
hikanoo49
Member
hikanoo49 is Patrick Beverley -- showing a lot of promise
Since: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,287
Member: #7791
    Reply With Quote
i like it!

we have the BEST backcourt in the league and BY FAR the best Center combo in the league

we just need to polish up our forward duo of Jones/Parsons and we will be all set

__________________
The kind of move, that always fails, are the moves of Kevin Mcphale!

Converse Weapons
 
Rockets1988- is offline Old 09-17-2013, 12:57 PM   #7
Rockets1988-
Member
Rockets1988- is Jeremy Lin -- starting to get dangerously goodRockets1988- is Jeremy Lin -- starting to get dangerously good
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 772
Member: #44913
    Reply With Quote
To not list the warriors on the top 10 is flat out stupid. I don't care if they are #9 or 10.. They just need to be on there
 
krnxsnoopy is offline Old 09-17-2013, 01:14 PM   #8
krnxsnoopy
Contributing Member
krnxsnoopy is James Harden -- racking up the pointskrnxsnoopy is James Harden -- racking up the pointskrnxsnoopy is James Harden -- racking up the pointskrnxsnoopy is James Harden -- racking up the pointskrnxsnoopy is James Harden -- racking up the pointskrnxsnoopy is James Harden -- racking up the points
Since: May 2005
Posts: 8,026
Member: #16206
    Reply With Quote
Klay Thompson and Stephen Curry are the best if not, one of the best.
 
Voice of Aus is offline Old 09-17-2013, 01:16 PM   #9
Voice of Aus
Contributing Member
Voice of Aus is Robert Horry -- just gets the job doneVoice of Aus is Robert Horry -- just gets the job doneVoice of Aus is Robert Horry -- just gets the job doneVoice of Aus is Robert Horry -- just gets the job doneVoice of Aus is Robert Horry -- just gets the job doneVoice of Aus is Robert Horry -- just gets the job done
Since: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,910
Member: #55834
    Reply With Quote
Nets and bulls got screwed, but if its just off advanced stats then all this article shows is how crap the stat is.

__________________
I'm just an Australian who wishes he grew up in Houston

Recent Thread - Statistical Analysis on Ariza vs Parsons contracts
 
LabMouse is offline Old 09-17-2013, 01:54 PM   #10
LabMouse
Member
LabMouse is Patrick Beverley -- showing a lot of promise
Since: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,959
Member: #32442
    Reply With Quote
Bulls, Nets, OKC, and Warriors are not the top 10, but the Dallas Mav is on it. All things do not make sense.
 
Rocketeer is offline Old 09-17-2013, 02:37 PM   #11
Rocketeer
Contributing Member
Rocketeer is Jeremy Lin -- starting to get dangerously goodRocketeer is Jeremy Lin -- starting to get dangerously good
Since: Jun 1999
Posts: 2,430
Member: #554
    Reply With Quote
Quote:
Lin and Harden played together for 70.2 minutes, per Basketball-Reference.com, during which Houston was outscored by 28.7 points per 100 possessions. However, Harden teamed with Beverley for 172.4 minutes and the Rockets outscored opposing Oklahoma City by seven points per 100 possessions.
This is skewed because JLin had to go head to head against Westbrook in most of his minutes before the injury.
 
shayan is offline Old 09-17-2013, 02:54 PM   #12
shayan
Member
shayan is Omer Asik -- working the boardsshayan is Omer Asik -- working the boardsshayan is Omer Asik -- working the boardsshayan is Omer Asik -- working the boards
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,598
Member: #50149
    Reply With Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketeer View Post
This is skewed because JLin had to go head to head against Westbrook in most of his minutes before the injury.
Beverly went headed to head with Westbrook too?
 
dobro1229 is offline Old 09-17-2013, 02:56 PM   #13
dobro1229
Contributing Member
dobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boardsdobro1229 is Moses Malone -- a well-known beast on the boards
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 9,359
Member: #45354
    Reply With Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by shayan View Post
Beverly went headed to head with Westbrook too?
I would say he went more Knee to Knee with Westbrook
 
shayan is offline Old 09-17-2013, 02:57 PM   #14
shayan
Member
shayan is Omer Asik -- working the boardsshayan is Omer Asik -- working the boardsshayan is Omer Asik -- working the boardsshayan is Omer Asik -- working the boards
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,598
Member: #50149
    Reply With Quote
Head to head*
 
what is offline Old 09-17-2013, 05:40 PM   #15
what
Member
what is James Harden -- racking up the pointswhat is James Harden -- racking up the pointswhat is James Harden -- racking up the pointswhat is James Harden -- racking up the pointswhat is James Harden -- racking up the points
Since: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,106
Member: #15560
    Reply With Quote
This is dumb, the grizzlies have a top 10 backcourt and so do the warriors.
 
CCorn is offline Old 09-17-2013, 08:38 PM   #16
CCorn
Contributing Member
CCorn is Yao Ming -- damn good but not quite HakeemCCorn is Yao Ming -- damn good but not quite HakeemCCorn is Yao Ming -- damn good but not quite HakeemCCorn is Yao Ming -- damn good but not quite HakeemCCorn is Yao Ming -- damn good but not quite HakeemCCorn is Yao Ming -- damn good but not quite HakeemCCorn is Yao Ming -- damn good but not quite HakeemCCorn is Yao Ming -- damn good but not quite HakeemCCorn is Yao Ming -- damn good but not quite HakeemCCorn is Yao Ming -- damn good but not quite HakeemCCorn is Yao Ming -- damn good but not quite Hakeem
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,998
Member: #47978
    Reply With Quote
Dwill and Jo Jo kinda got snubbed here.

__________________
Twitter: TheFakeCoriC

Occupy Unsorted
 
shastarocket is offline Old 09-17-2013, 08:47 PM   #17
shastarocket
Contributing Member
shastarocket is Clyde Drexler -- smooth and a joy to watchshastarocket is Clyde Drexler -- smooth and a joy to watchshastarocket is Clyde Drexler -- smooth and a joy to watchshastarocket is Clyde Drexler -- smooth and a joy to watchshastarocket is Clyde Drexler -- smooth and a joy to watchshastarocket is Clyde Drexler -- smooth and a joy to watchshastarocket is Clyde Drexler -- smooth and a joy to watchshastarocket is Clyde Drexler -- smooth and a joy to watchshastarocket is Clyde Drexler -- smooth and a joy to watch
Since: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,902
Member: #19563
    Reply With Quote
I don't know how he figures Iggy will predominantly play the 3, I figured Harrison Barnes would get most of those minutes after a promising year

__________________
“Someone created the box score,” Morey says, “and he should be shot.”

Men do not quarrel for light but they quarrel over cattle
 
VBG is offline Old 09-17-2013, 09:02 PM   #18
VBG
Member
VBG is James Harden -- racking up the pointsVBG is James Harden -- racking up the pointsVBG is James Harden -- racking up the pointsVBG is James Harden -- racking up the pointsVBG is James Harden -- racking up the points
Since: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,526
Member: #42683
    Reply With Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by shastarocket View Post
I don't know how he figures Iggy will predominantly play the 3, I figured Harrison Barnes would get most of those minutes after a promising year
Barnes will be the one coming of the bench. There is gonna be a ton of small ball with them.

__________________
Winner of All Time Clutchfans NBA Draft 2011

 
nolimitnp is offline Old 09-24-2013, 11:34 PM   #19
nolimitnp
Contributing Member
nolimitnp is Patrick Beverley -- showing a lot of promise
Since: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,972
Member: #29339
    Reply With Quote
I'm interested to see if Jeremy Lamb turns into anything. I'll never trust the sleepy look ever again.
 
Aleron is online now Old 09-24-2013, 11:44 PM   #20
Aleron
Contributing Member
Aleron is James Harden -- racking up the pointsAleron is James Harden -- racking up the pointsAleron is James Harden -- racking up the pointsAleron is James Harden -- racking up the pointsAleron is James Harden -- racking up the pointsAleron is James Harden -- racking up the points
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,956
Member: #46532
    Reply With Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketeer View Post
This is skewed because JLin had to go head to head against Westbrook in most of his minutes before the injury.
When Lin was on the court (game 1), so was smith, and OKC brutally exposed that front court, we could have had CP3 as pg and they would have destroyed us.
 

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rockets power ranking on espn... saviorlh Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves 61 09-27-2009 08:53 AM
#22 on ESPN Power Ranking! R-Jay Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves 3 09-26-2009 11:16 AM
ESPN Power Ranking KALIKULI Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves 17 10-27-2008 05:18 PM
Down to number 4 on the ESPN power ranking wreck Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves 8 01-18-2007 06:50 PM
[ESPN]Power Ranking (week 2) jsnwu Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves 28 11-14-2006 12:16 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.