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PhiSlamma is offline Old 04-30-2013, 05:22 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by blunto View Post

Beverley seems to be a better fit next to Harden than Lin does. Murray's building around Harden. Second star takes next priority, then pieces that fit. Rockets are still collecting assets to package up. Both Lin and Beverley are candidates to be shipped out, let's be real.
This is laughable. It basically disregards everything that happened around Les Alexander's wanting Lin back this season.

Look, let me just say this loudly and clearly for the Lin Haters and Lin Doubters:

If you dislike or doubt Jeremy Lin, for whatever reason, I would advise you to suck every last ounce of joy you can out of this OKC series and the upcoming offseason.

Because after that, and provided Lin doesn't suffer another serious injury setback, I think things are going to get much, much tougher for you.

The best hope I would have if I were a Lin Hater would be that Lin decides he has to completely rebuild his jump shot. That could take like two years and would probably mean more significant outside-shooting struggles for him from the perimeter next year. It's something like watching a golfer rebuild his swing. It takes time.


I'm not sure people appreciate all Lin has gone through in the last 15 months or so and how much that shock -- and injury matters -- has affected him. Yet he still improved tremendously this year and was part of one of the best stories of the NBA season.

Remember, we started this season out with leaks about how the "basketball side" in Houston wasn't sold on Lin. How they weren't sure he rehabbed enough. All of this stuff.

In between now and then, Lin has had 14 outings of 20+ points. He went from awful early in the year to averaging 17.1/2.2/6.5 in his final 10 games of the regular season on 43.7% shooting. He shot 37% from three in those final 10 regular season games, as well.

Lin went from like a 29.0% three-point shooter early in the year to a 33.9% three-point shooter at the end of the season.

He's improving, rapidly. This is -- barring injuries -- the WORST version of him you're going to see.

So, I say it again: Whatever disrespecting or disregarding of Lin people want to avail themselves of, I would do that now.

While you still can.

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gate470 is offline Old 04-30-2013, 06:43 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by hooroo View Post
This team has been tailored for the current backcourt. They're opening up the lanes for both Harden and Lin. Lin struggles in the halfcourt setting and this was mentioned by both Morey and Sampson. Guess what? The Rockets don't even try to go there. When DMo was drafted McHale said he would not be shooting 3s in the NBA. The opportunity has been there for Lin the whole season.
Lin is actually one of the better half court players this team has (not sure if that means much though). Feigen has mentioned this in his articles. Im assuming he has access to the coaching staff/players and isnt just pulling crap out of the air. I know that Morey has mentioned our youth when referencing set half court plays but when has he or Sampson specifically called Lin out on this? I'm curious when this was said. Harden's our primary ball handler and playmaker, you would think that his effectiveness in the half court would be as important, if not more.
 
Fighton is offline Old 04-30-2013, 06:56 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by SuperStar View Post
seriously?
 
TJ VS TR is offline Old 04-30-2013, 07:30 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by SamFisher View Post
Terrell Brandon! And he's available!
Injury prone.
 
TJ VS TR is offline Old 04-30-2013, 07:32 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by sweetness1 View Post
Mchale has a cognitive bias and there's nothing on this planet which will change it. Harden is a "great" player and Lin is a "role" player. That's it. His preconceptions are etched in stone, as permanent as the sun.

As long as mchale is coach, Jeremy will be relegated to mop-up duty.
I wouldn't call it permanent as the sun, actually the sun is not permanent. Anyways, I do believe there's a chance McHale could change. I'd definitely give him an opportunity to think through it this summer and training camp. Problem was, Harden and Lin never had a training camp together.
 
TJ VS TR is offline Old 04-30-2013, 07:34 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by blunto View Post
Back in 2010 haters used to say pairing LeBron with DWade was going to be a disaster because they both needed the ball in their hands. Although they struggled for a while to mesh, they figured it out. I would like to think a similar principle might apply to Harden/Lin (two attacking, ball-dominant players coexisting), but I'm not sure it does. DWade/Bron are flat out bigger humans. The mismatches LeBron can create make that duo work.
Simple: let the passer be passer; and let the scorer be scorer. LeBron is better passer than DWade, let LeBron have ball in hand, pass to DWade for a basket. Don't understand why it wouldn't work for the Rockets.
 
blunto is offline Old 04-30-2013, 09:59 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by PhiSlamma View Post
This is laughable. It basically disregards everything that happened around Les Alexander's wanting Lin back this season.
I like Lin. He's good and getting better. He definitely plays an important role on this team as currently constructed. He has the potential to be a starting PG on a championship team.

However, I don't think he is (or will be) a piece that a contending NBA team is going to build around. Neither is Patrick Beverley.

Les brought in Lin before he landed Harden. Lin was supposed to be the centerpiece of the offense in a rebuilding season (to the extent that Les ever will admit to or have a rebuilding season).

Harden is a piece to build around. Morey has stated openly that they are looking for a second piece, meaning they don't have one now. You make sacrifices to land a star - sacrifices yet unknown.

Look at the league these days; there's a huge crop of solid, skilled, well rounded point guards out there, Lin being one of them. My point is: given the position he plays, he's relatively easy to replace. That's no knock, I'm just taking my homer hat off and trying to be objective.

Anyway, the article talks about Bev stealing Lin's job. I think that's pretty dumb. There's room for them both on this current team, regardless of who's on the floor during the opening tip.
 
Fair Dinkum is offline Old 04-30-2013, 10:21 PM   #108
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WTF? I know they're best buds but Lin and Bev aren't on the same level.

Career Stats:
LIN FG=44.0%, 3FG=33.2%, AST=755, STL=222, PTS=1683
BEV FG=41.8%, 3FG=37.5%, AST=117, STL=37, PTS=228

Most of all, their career stats show Beverley still has a lot to prove.
 
blunto is offline Old 04-30-2013, 10:28 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by TJ VS TR View Post
Simple: let the passer be passer; and let the scorer be scorer. LeBron is better passer than DWade, let LeBron have ball in hand, pass to DWade for a basket. Don't understand why it wouldn't work for the Rockets.
It could work. However, here're the differences:

LeBron is a way better passer than Harden or Lin, especially now that he plays on the perimeter less, and can set up shop down on the left block. Drawing the double team from the left block or elbow with a cutter like Wade who can either attack the rim or make an extra pass for an easy look is huge.

When does Harden draw the double? You don't want to send the extra defender when he Iso's outside the three, so you either let him iso and take your chances on a pull up jumper, or if he drives, be sure to come with early help to pack the paint. On the PnR you can get a mismatch or open look for the screen setter, but if the screener isn't a good finisher or passer (or can't catch), the play falls apart (Asik). And all the while, what is Lin doing out on the perimeter other than spotting up? Even if you get it out to him, the lane is clogged from the PnR and you're putting Lin in an impossible situation UNLESS he's going to shoot from the perimeter.

Additionally, Bron is big enough that he can reliably run a PnR with Wade, which is pretty sick to watch when they're clicking. Can't run a Harden/Lin PnR.

Anyway, just cause I don't see a good way for two ball-dominant, penetrating perimeter players to co-exist on the floor at the same time doesn't mean there isn't a way. Spoelstra figured it out, but the tools he has I do think make the difference.

Maybe some of the posters on this board who so clearly see what the coaching staff's offensive shortcomings are can suggest some specific half court sets that would be more effective with Harden and Lin on the floor at the same time.
 
blunto is offline Old 04-30-2013, 10:43 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by PhiSlamma View Post
This is laughable. It basically disregards everything that happened around Les Alexander's wanting Lin back this season.
I guess the other thing I didn't explicitly address is that EVERYONE on this team is a candidate to be shipped out for a second star, other than Harden obviously. I don't think that's a stretch in the slightest.

Further, in a hypothetical, trade-for-a-second-star, vacuum (not knowing what the piece coming back would be), Lin is easier to part with than Asik (rarer commodity) or Parsons (way outplaying his cheap contract). From there on down the waters are a little muddier.
 
AVoiceInACrowd is offline Old 04-30-2013, 11:01 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by blunto View Post
I guess the other thing I didn't explicitly address is that EVERYONE on this team is a candidate to be shipped out for a second star, other than Harden obviously. I don't think that's a stretch in the slightest.

Further, in a hypothetical, trade-for-a-second-star, vacuum (not knowing what the piece coming back would be), Lin is easier to part with than Asik (rarer commodity) or Parsons (way outplaying his cheap contract). From there on down the waters are a little muddier.
I think Lin is easier to replace than Asik or Parsons at this point and time, but I don't think he is easier to part with.

Here is my reasoning. The first time they dropped Lin and he went through Linsanity, the gm and coaching staff had to deal with a lot of press on why they let him go and the media perception of what a mistake it was. If they trade him again without giving him a chance to see what he can become and he flourishes into an all star level player with another team. They'll never live it down.
 
blunto is offline Old 04-30-2013, 11:36 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by AVoiceInACrowd View Post
I think Lin is easier to replace than Asik or Parsons at this point and time, but I don't think he is easier to part with.

Here is my reasoning. The first time they dropped Lin and he went through Linsanity, the gm and coaching staff had to deal with a lot of press on why they let him go and the media perception of what a mistake it was. If they trade him again without giving him a chance to see what he can become and he flourishes into an all star level player with another team. They'll never live it down.
Yeah, ****ty situation from a PR perspective. If a championship is at stake, I think they take the media firestorm as medicine and don't look back. That's a huge "if", though.
 
TJ VS TR is offline Old 05-01-2013, 03:16 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by blunto View Post
It could work. However, here're the differences:

LeBron is a way better passer than Harden or Lin, especially now that he plays on the perimeter less, and can set up shop down on the left block. Drawing the double team from the left block or elbow with a cutter like Wade who can either attack the rim or make an extra pass for an easy look is huge.

When does Harden draw the double? You don't want to send the extra defender when he Iso's outside the three, so you either let him iso and take your chances on a pull up jumper, or if he drives, be sure to come with early help to pack the paint. On the PnR you can get a mismatch or open look for the screen setter, but if the screener isn't a good finisher or passer (or can't catch), the play falls apart (Asik). And all the while, what is Lin doing out on the perimeter other than spotting up? Even if you get it out to him, the lane is clogged from the PnR and you're putting Lin in an impossible situation UNLESS he's going to shoot from the perimeter.

Additionally, Bron is big enough that he can reliably run a PnR with Wade, which is pretty sick to watch when they're clicking. Can't run a Harden/Lin PnR.

Anyway, just cause I don't see a good way for two ball-dominant, penetrating perimeter players to co-exist on the floor at the same time doesn't mean there isn't a way. Spoelstra figured it out, but the tools he has I do think make the difference.

Maybe some of the posters on this board who so clearly see what the coaching staff's offensive shortcomings are can suggest some specific half court sets that would be more effective with Harden and Lin on the floor at the same time.
Thanks for the reply. There are some very good and correct points but I'm confused about something. We are talking about it's better for Bron and Lin, being the better passers, to have the ball in hand and passing but you seem to be talking about Harden having the ball and passing?

You are definitely right that Bron being so much bigger and better at passing makes it much easier. Well that's certainly a big reason why they are a championship caliber team whereas we are barely making the playoffs. The same thing certainly wouldn't work for us, I'm just talking about the idea of letting the better passer pass the ball and the better scorer score.

It's also true that we don't have good scoring big men to run plays with, Dwight certainly would change that, but we're not sure about it. Hopefully T Jones would grow into a reliable contribution soon and he could be a threat with the pick and roll/pop.
 
Reach is offline Old 05-01-2013, 10:09 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by TJ VS TR View Post
Simple: let the passer be passer; and let the scorer be scorer. LeBron is better passer than DWade, let LeBron have ball in hand, pass to DWade for a basket. Don't understand why it wouldn't work for the Rockets.
Translation: Make Harden a spot up shooter so I can relive Linsanity in Houston.
 
TJ VS TR is offline Old 05-01-2013, 06:31 PM   #115
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Translation: Make Harden a spot up shooter so I can relive Linsanity in Houston.
Hey, something wrong with that?

If it's detrimental to the team of course, but I don't think so. JLin is the ultimately team player, gets everyone involved.

Scorer and spot-up shooter are very different. Sam Vincent and Pippen maybe handled the ball more and had more assists but MJ scored more. Could we say MJ becomes a spot up shooter? Other examples could be 'Toine and PP, Webb/Hardaway and Richmond, , Payton/Cassell and Ray, Rider and Damon; even though MJ, PP, Rider, Ray and Richmond all do spot-up, can we say they are reduced to being spot-up shooters just because they are playing with a passing point guard? Of course, it's the coaches' responsibilities, not ours, to figure that out. (unless they would listen to us but I think not)

Basketball is a team game, it rarely succeeds just giving the ball to a scoring guard and let him score and trickle down. AI is a rare exception but Harden is good but not AI and the whole team had to be built around him AND most importantly he never won a championship. Kobe tried but he needed Shaq and Gasol. Nowadays team defense is so much more sophisticated anyways, different era of b-ball.
 
RocketFever is offline Old 05-01-2013, 08:19 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Reach View Post
Translation: Make Harden a spot up shooter so I can relive Linsanity in Houston.
Per Synergy, Harden's PPP taking spot up shots is 1.04. His overall PPP is lower at 1.01...statistically speaking, he should be taking more spot up shots.
 
TJ VS TR is offline Old 05-01-2013, 08:51 PM   #117
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Harden spotting up works much better than Lin spotting because Harden is a much better spot up shooter. When Lin spots up, people don't respect him so he has to shoot it. When Harden spots up, his defender has to come flying in, much easier to create space.

One more thing, Linsanity meant linning for the team baby~
 
gene18 is offline Old 05-03-2013, 09:04 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Patterned919 View Post
...that's not how it works. You just said the complete opposite of what happens.

It's about percentages, not totals. Half of Beverley's shots are 3 pointers.

eFG% factors in that he takes MORE 3pointers than most people. His FG% is getting deflated because of how many threes he's taking.
I stand corrected. What I meant to say is that players that shoot a few shots tend to have higher FG%ages as efficiency decreases a one takes more shots per game according to the author of Basketball by the Numbers. I said it incorrectly. Ofcourse ,one hits fewer 3's than twos and the uncorrected fg% will be deflated if one has almost the same number of two's taken as threes. Thanks for the heads up.
 

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