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dragician is offline Old 12-21-2012, 08:46 AM   #1
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This is happening in almost every game and last one he gave up 3easy three point shots and he literally watched the shooter...

If I know how to cut video files I can compile easily 20+ of these.
 
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conquistador#11 is offline Old 12-21-2012, 08:57 AM   #2
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It feels that way with all of our guards. Get stuck behind the pick and watch the shot go up. How many ways can you cover the pick and roll? 3? under, over, and the way rudy used to do it against the jizz? You'd think one of those would work. then again, that's why everybody runs it.

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haoafu is online now Old 12-21-2012, 09:09 AM   #3
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Defensive stats of Harden/Parsons/Asik regressed quite a bit from last year according to synergy sports stats. I think it's due to the heavy minutes and offensive load they are carrying.

I'd give Parsons/Asik a break, because their effort is still there. Harden needs to put more effort in if he wants to be on similar level of Kobe/Wade(both are very good on defensive end).
 
sealclubber1016 is offline Old 12-21-2012, 09:15 AM   #4
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Right now he simply doesn't give good effort on defense.

He's happy to be a great scorer. I've seen players that start this way, but as the title hunger grows they start giving better effort on d.

I saw it with LeBron, Dirk and Durant. But it's by no means a guarantee.

Even coasting on d he's still extremely valuable, but that's one of the next level things he still needs to work on.
 
just a word is offline Old 12-21-2012, 09:29 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by sealclubber1016 View Post
Right now he simply doesn't give good effort on defense.

He's happy to be a great scorer. I've seen players that start this way, but as the title hunger grows they start giving better effort on d.

I saw it with LeBron, Dirk and Durant. But it's by no means a guarantee.

Even coasting on d he's still extremely valuable, but that's one of the next level things he still needs to work on.
Thing is, he spends energy cheating on defense... but he doesn't even raise a hand up sometimes. JUST RAISE A HAND. Stat guys did the calculations and it reduces shooting % by 10%.

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JJ23 is offline Old 12-21-2012, 09:40 AM   #6
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He'll be fine. Rome wasn't built in a day.
 
fishguy91 is offline Old 12-21-2012, 09:44 AM   #7
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I had a problem with that in the earlier season but now I'm cool with it. He's carrying a lot of offensive load and playing 40+ mins regularly. Wait till we get another star and if he continues doing that then we will call him out.
 
Pete the Cheat is offline Old 12-21-2012, 09:46 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by haoafu View Post
Defensive stats of Harden/Parsons/Asik regressed quite a bit from last year according to synergy sports stats. I think it's due to the heavy minutes and offensive load they are carrying.

I'd give Parsons/Asik a break, because their effort is still there. Harden needs to put more effort in if he wants to be on similar level of Kobe/Wade(both are very good on defensive end).
the only way you build up that kind of conditioning is reps. it will come with time...probably not the appropriate answer for a knee jerk thread though

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meh is offline Old 12-21-2012, 09:48 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by conquistador#11 View Post
It feels that way with all of our guards. Get stuck behind the pick and watch the shot go up. How many ways can you cover the pick and roll? 3? under, over, and the way rudy used to do it against the jizz? You'd think one of those would work. then again, that's why everybody runs it.
I agree. While Harden is certainly not a great defender, our PnR defense does seem more like a coaching philosophy than slacking off on defense. The Rockets seems always willing to give up a jumpshot in general. The downside, of course, is that opponents are shooting at a way higher percentage against the Rockets than league norm. They are 24th in opponent eFG%.

But there are upsides. One, this helps with their transition game, which feasts off of misses. Two, this lessen fouls and FT attempts. They are ranked 3rd in the NBA in least FTs given up per shot. And as a corollary, it has allowed Asik to not rack up a lot of fouls, something he did with great regularity in Chicago. But it does say something about how the Rockets are willing to give up good shots in order to protect their own players. Certainly, this is not exactly Jordan/Pippen/Rodman/Harper on D. As a group, they're not overly talented.
 
trock is offline Old 12-21-2012, 09:50 AM   #10
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is terrible.
 
dragician is offline Old 12-21-2012, 10:08 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by just a word View Post
Thing is, he spends energy cheating on defense... but he doesn't even raise a hand up sometimes. JUST RAISE A HAND. Stat guys did the calculations and it reduces shooting % by 10%.
Exactly my point. Hands up is e least you can do and he is just watching.
 
haoafu is online now Old 12-21-2012, 10:29 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Pete the Cheat View Post
the only way you build up that kind of conditioning is reps. it will come with time...probably not the appropriate answer for a knee jerk thread though
Right. It's weird knee jerk threads always become long threads on this board. I'll stop here.
 
RV6 is offline Old 12-21-2012, 10:38 AM   #13
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DreamRoxCoogFan is offline Old 12-21-2012, 10:47 AM   #14
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I'd give Parsons/Asik a break, because their effort is still there. Harden needs to put more effort in if he wants to be on similar level of Kobe/Wade(both are very good on defensive end).
totally disagree with this. These guys have moments where they play good D, but they're not defensive players. Kobe stopped playing D like 2 years ago. Wade got old.

And don't tell me about how they were nba all defense- that vote is ridiculous, awarded to big names often times rather than elite guys who commit almost exclusively to D (eg battier when he was younger)

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Nook is online now Old 12-21-2012, 10:50 AM   #15
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Good to see the LOF's check in on this thread....

Having said that, yes Harden has been mediocre on defense. Then again he is carrying a load that is as large as anyone in the NBA.

The whole team is playing mediocre defense. Part of it is the pace the team is playing, and there is also an issue of team defense. The team simply hasn't been together long enough to play defense at the level they would like.

Teams like Memphis, San Antonio and New York can defend because they have been together awhile and have their routine down.
 
Nook is online now Old 12-21-2012, 11:00 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by DreamRoxCoogFan View Post
totally disagree with this. These guys have moments where they play good D, but they're not defensive players. Kobe stopped playing D like 2 years ago. Wade got old.

And don't tell me about how they were nba all defense- that vote is ridiculous, awarded to big names often times rather than elite guys who commit almost exclusively to D (eg battier when he was younger)
Kobe stopped playing defense 2 years ago? Try a decade ago. He had one year where he was an elite defender. Since then he has fluctuated from defending specific possessions well to not defending at all now.
 
haoafu is online now Old 12-21-2012, 11:05 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by DreamRoxCoogFan View Post
totally disagree with this. These guys have moments where they play good D, but they're not defensive players. Kobe stopped playing D like 2 years ago. Wade got old.

And don't tell me about how they were nba all defense- that vote is ridiculous, awarded to big names often times rather than elite guys who commit almost exclusively to D (eg battier when he was younger)
It's one thing to say they are not defensive first team anymore, it's another to totally dismiss their defense. Both Kobe and Wade ranked around top50 defenders of all positions this season according to synergy sports. Harden is near the bottom out of the qualified players.
 
just a word is offline Old 12-21-2012, 11:14 AM   #18
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Good to see the LOF's check in on this thread....

Having said that, yes Harden has been mediocre on defense. Then again he is carrying a load that is as large as anyone in the NBA.
Look, I appreciate all the energy that Harden's put into offense, I think it's awesome. And I agree that Harden should conserve his energy.

I don't think he conserves his energy by cheating off defense and swiping at balls.

And I don't think it takes that much energy to just RAISE HIS HAND. Not even waving it around. JUST RAISE IT. Maybe even stick it in a guy's face like Battier; it's a low-energy move that's very efficient and doesn't require that much repositioning of the body if you position yourself right and don't (protip) cheat off d.

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ch0c0b0fr34k is offline Old 12-21-2012, 11:20 AM   #19
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I don't think Harden will ever become a great defender. His "elite" ability is his strength and the way he can take two to three strides and be at the right, right? Well it doesn't work that way on defense. He's a slow defender (and a slow aggressor) who relies on power and a specific move - the eurostep - that does not have a defensive counterpart. Because defense is all about quick reaction time and speed at the guard positions, I highly doubt Harden will become anything other than an average defender.

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haoafu is online now Old 12-21-2012, 11:26 AM   #20
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I don't think Harden will ever become a great defender. His "elite" ability is his strength and the way he can take two to three strides and be at the right, right? Well it doesn't work that way on defense. He's a slow defender (and a slow aggressor) who relies on power and a specific move - the eurostep - that does not have a defensive counterpart. Because defense is all about quick reaction time and speed at the guard positions, I highly doubt Harden will become anything other than an average defender.
I think Harden has pretty good speed and wingspan, strength to begin with(according to his predraft measurement). If he can concentrate more, he has the potential to be a very good defender.
 

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