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Rondo's 12.9 APG impressive?
Tags:  basketball, boston celtics, fight, heat, history, john stockton, kris humphries, magic, magic johnson, nba, rajon rondo Tags
MambaJoe is offline Old 12-15-2012, 06:04 PM   #1
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This entire season, I've been keeping an eye on the Celtics every now and then. But there has been a lot of praises towards their PG Rajon Rondo. This season, there is no doubt he is playing incredibly well, picking up where he left off from last year's playoff series against the Heat.

This season, his assist average is way above everyone else. There's no doubt he's a gifted play maker and is incredibly talented as a player. His stats alone is making history as few others in the past average 12.9 apg like Rondo. Guys like Stockton and Magic had those types of numbers and that got me thinking, is Rondo in that same elite class like those guys?

To many people out there, he should be in that same elite class like those of Stockton and Magic because of his double digit assist streak which was broken because of that fight with Kris Humphries and also his season APG average.

But in my own opinion (many may disagree), I feel like his stats may be inflated. There are times when I notice that Rondo had an wide open shot but passed it up to get an assist. Don't get me wrong, but I think any PG that is gifted like Rondo, CP3, D-Will, Nash etc, could have those types of numbers if they purposely trying to get as many assist as they can every game. I don't know Rondo personally so I cannot say whether or not he's purposely trying to stuff his stat sheet or not but based of some of the plays he had this year, it really makes me believe that he is sometimes.

I know very few players can impact the game like Rondo and a lot of times, some of the things he does is amazing. I think CP3 can also easily average the same APG like Rondo if he's trying to fill up his stat sheet but CP3 plays within the flow of the game and doesn't really care about how many assist he has.

The only reason why I started this thread is because a lot of people are starting to put Rondo in that same category as Magic Johnson and John Stockton because of the numbers he's putting up but I just don't think he belongs in the same elite class like those guys. Stockton and Magic plays in the flow of the game and they are legendary at what they do. Rondo, in some eyes are truly great and elite, but I'm not impress with it...

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FearTheBeardJH is offline Old 12-15-2012, 06:21 PM   #2
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Rondo is an offensive liability and was the least efficient(scoring) starting PG past two years. How can your offense be ranked just 24th with Pierce, Garnett and Allen? Well you have to pass up wide open layups for 17 foot jumpers to stat pad your assists.

Boston is 14th in ORTG this season, he's been more efficient this season. But still if you switched CP3 and Rondo, CP3 would make Boston top 5 offense in the NBA and Rondo would bring Clippers(currently 4th) out of top 10. Rondo would probably bring OKC out of top 3 maybe even out of top 5.


Not a top 5 PG in this league, despite his defense and rebounding.

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OremLK is offline Old 12-15-2012, 06:27 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FearTheBeardJH View Post
Rondo is an offensive liability and was the least efficient(scoring) starting PG past two years. How can your offense be ranked just 24th with Pierce, Garnett and Allen? Well you have to pass up wide open layups for 17 foot jumpers to stat pad your assists.

Boston is 14th in ORTG this season, he's been more efficient this season. But still if you switched CP3 and Rondo, CP3 would make Boston top 5 offense in the NBA and Rondo would bring Clippers(currently 4th) out of top 10. Rondo would probably bring OKC out of top 3 maybe even out of top 5.


Not a top 5 PG in this league, despite his defense and rebounding.
I'm afraid I have to agree. Rondo gets VASTLY overrated by traditional metrics and benchmarks like blathering on about how many triple-doubles he gets.

A triple-double is a nice feat, but when your TS% is constantly hovering around .500 as a high usage player, it kinda takes the wind out of your sails.

Also, Rondo is one of those guys who has benefited throughout his career from having so many great players around him to whom he can dish the ball. He'd average a couple fewer assists per game on a lesser team.

This year, he takes more than 1 three pointer a game and hits a shocking 22% of them.

He never learned to shoot, and that's his downfall. He can't even shoot FTs, he hits a percentage which would be typical of a center, not a point guard.

He would be the best PG in the NBA if he could shoot like Nash, but that is looking unlikely at this point. As it is he's a one-trick pony on offense, either he hits a guy in good position to score (which might just be a guy playing 1 on 1 who scores anyway, knowing the Celtics) or he hits a layup. If you sell out to stop those things you can stop Rondo's offense.
 
rhino17 is offline Old 12-15-2012, 06:35 PM   #4
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Best PG in basketball. I haven't seen a PG be able to completely dominate a game offensively without even having to shoot the ball in a long time.

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MambaJoe is offline Old 12-15-2012, 06:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FearTheBeardJH View Post
Rondo is an offensive liability and was the least efficient(scoring) starting PG past two years. How can your offense be ranked just 24th with Pierce, Garnett and Allen? Well you have to pass up wide open layups for 17 foot jumpers to stat pad your assists.

Boston is 14th in ORTG this season, he's been more efficient this season. But still if you switched CP3 and Rondo, CP3 would make Boston top 5 offense in the NBA and Rondo would bring Clippers(currently 4th) out of top 10. Rondo would probably bring OKC out of top 3 maybe even out of top 5.


Not a top 5 PG in this league, despite his defense and rebounding.
There were a lot of times where Rondo passes the ball to KG or Pierce, then they played a little 1 on 1 and score, and Rondo gets the assist for that.

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GotGame15 is offline Old 12-15-2012, 06:44 PM   #6
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He is a top 3 PG in the league, no doubt. The only one I would put ahead of him is CP3, but all the others have their weaknesses just like Rondo's outside shooting. The way he affects the game from end to end is actually underrated in my opinion.
 
MambaJoe is offline Old 12-15-2012, 06:47 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by GotGame15 View Post
He is a top 3 PG in the league, no doubt. The only one I would put ahead of him is CP3, but all the others have their weaknesses just like Rondo's outside shooting. The way he affects the game from end to end is actually underrated in my opinion.
He's not underrated because people constantly praise him for how great of a rebounder he is and a great defender which no doubt he is. Rondo is a great player and very talented. My only point is, his APG is a little inflated and I don't think he deserves to be put in the same category as Magic or Stockton.

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rhino17 is offline Old 12-15-2012, 06:51 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by MambaJoe View Post
He's not underrated because people constantly praise him for how great of a rebounder he is and a great defender which no doubt he is. Rondo is a great player and very talented. My only point is, his APG is a little inflated and I don't think he deserves to be put in the same category as Magic or Stockton.
I don't get why you say they are inflated, an assist is an assist.

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MambaJoe is offline Old 12-15-2012, 07:06 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by rhino17 View Post
I don't get why you say they are inflated, an assist is an assist.
The reason why I think its inflated is because of who he's playing with and some of the extra assist that he got even though it wasn't an assist. I've watched some of the Celtics game this year and I notice that some of his assist came from him passing the ball of KG or Pierce, who then play 1 on 1 and score on their own and Rondo getting the assist for that.

But like I said, those are my opinions and my opinions are different from others. I know that a lot of people will disagree with me on this one. I know an assist is an assist but it can be inflated because of the style that he play. I know CP3 or Nash can obtain those type of numbers if they pass up on layups for 17 foot jump shots etc.

My point of this is, because of his assist numbers, people are putting him in the same category as Magic and Stockton and I feel like he's not in the same elite class. Magic and Stock plays within the flow of the game while being able to score and assist when its necessary.

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MambaJoe is offline Old 12-15-2012, 07:17 PM   #10
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Even though Rondo is racking up tons of assists, the Celtics isn't even top 15 in Offensive efficiency.

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munco is offline Old 12-15-2012, 07:22 PM   #11
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Great player, but his assist numbers seem very inflated. From passing up open shots to pad his stats to the Celtic stat keepers crediting him on some very questionable assists. He's definitely one of the best PGs in the league but he's not on the level of a Stockton or Magic when it comes to distributing.
 
rhino17 is offline Old 12-15-2012, 07:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MambaJoe View Post
The reason why I think its inflated is because of who he's playing with and some of the extra assist that he got even though it wasn't an assist. I've watched some of the Celtics game this year and I notice that some of his assist came from him passing the ball of KG or Pierce, who then play 1 on 1 and score on their own and Rondo getting the assist for that.
And other great PGs didn't? Nash probably played with the greatest set of finishers around the basket in decades. Magic had HOFers around him. Stockton had Malone finish pick and rolls. No one puts up those assist numbers without help. But that doesnt take away from their amazing court vision and tempo control.

And to my knowledge, they haven't changed what is recorded as assist in recent history, but I could be wrong.

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CantBeRight is offline Old 12-15-2012, 07:36 PM   #13
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Best point guard in the league.

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KingLeoric is online now Old 12-15-2012, 08:15 PM   #14
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He's a stats machine for sure, but if he is that good, his team shouldn't be mediocre offensively.
 
TheFreak is offline Old 12-15-2012, 09:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhino17 View Post
Best PG in basketball. I haven't seen a PG be able to completely dominate a game offensively without even having to shoot the ball in a long time.
As has been pointed out, he's not dominating very often if his team is 19th (currently) in offense.
 
FearTheBeardJH is offline Old 12-15-2012, 09:57 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by CantBeRight View Post
Best point guard in the league.
Jeremy Lin is closer to Rondo than Rondo is to Chris Paul.

Top 5 PG's:
1. Chris Paul
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Tony Parker
4. Kyrie Irving
5. Deron Williams

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Outlier is offline Old 12-15-2012, 10:02 PM   #17
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Kyrie Irving is in no way better than Rajon Rondo. He should try to learn how to play D first and become a better leader if he wants to be as good as Rondo.
 
TEXNIFICENT is offline Old 12-15-2012, 10:05 PM   #18
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Jeremy Lin is closer to Rondo than Rondo is to Chris Paul.
Wow.
 
PrawnJ is offline Old 12-15-2012, 10:19 PM   #19
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If you look at it from another perspective, Rondo passes up wide open layups in exchange for his teammate knocking down an open jumper to increase his teammates confidence. For players like Garnett and Bass(even pierce at times) who shoots a lot of jumpshots, just seeing the ball go in helps you to play better. You got to take into account things like these and thus I have no problem with Rondo trying to get an assist instead of taking the layup
 
MadMirror is offline Old 12-15-2012, 10:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MambaJoe View Post
The reason why I think its inflated is because of who he's playing with and some of the extra assist that he got even though it wasn't an assist. I've watched some of the Celtics game this year and I notice that some of his assist came from him passing the ball of KG or Pierce, who then play 1 on 1 and score on their own and Rondo getting the assist for that.
Assists are subjective according to a scorekeeper's whims and are one of, if not the least useful counting stats in basketball because of it. It doesn't look like there's a significant homecourt bias for Rondo versus any other player playing on their home court in this case, though. His home/away splits for assists are pretty close.

If you're saying that Rondo is uniquely benefitting from Pierce and Garnett, well, so does every other player who passes to someone with a quick move to get a shot off.
 

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