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Westbrook vs Harden
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heypartner is offline Old 10-30-2012, 07:38 PM   #1
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This is what the GARM has come to. I fear posting this in the GARM, because it will turn into Lin vs Westbrook. or worse, Lin vs Harden

Question: Do people really value an allstar PG like Westbrook over a top 2 or 3 SG like Harden?

I like Harden better than Westbrook, because there are fewer SGs in the league now than PGs. He has higher value for that reason alone, imo. Plus, I just think he's a better player overall, and the only reason he wasn't a starter is because he was the last of the Big 3 to get drafted, much like Ginobody at SAS.

Assuming the rest of the trade remains equal (Lamb and picks are gone), would you have traded for Harden or Westbrook?

Lin / Harden >> Westbrook / Martin

Last edited by heypartner; 10-30-2012 at 09:26 PM.
 
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tinman is offline Old 10-30-2012, 07:48 PM   #2
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we're in the dish

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
I think Harden summed it up best. When asked afterwards why so many players want to work out with Dream, Harden said, “Did you see his highlights? Did you see what he did when he played?”
 
heypartner is offline Old 10-30-2012, 07:50 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by tinman View Post
we're in the dish
as planned. tinman is a little slow sometimes.

I think I'm going to start a new cf.net trend to put Rockets' post here if I can mention just 1 player from another team in the title.

Lock if inappropriate, but please don't move to the GARM.
 
jank1434 is offline Old 10-30-2012, 07:51 PM   #4
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I agree HP, but I am very anti-Westbrook. Not the kind of PG that I think can lead a championship team. They need the ball in Durant's hands to win. Put Rondo on OKC or another elite distributing PG, and the Thunder are unstoppable.

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kuku is offline Old 10-30-2012, 07:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heypartner View Post
This is what the GARM has come to. I fear posting this in the GARM, because it will turn into Lin vs Westbrook.

Question: Do people really value an allstar PG like Westbrook over a top 2 or 3 SG like Harden?

I like Harden better than Westbrook, because there are fewer SGs in the league now than PGs. He has higher value for that reason alone, imo. Plus, I just think he's a better player overall, and the only reason he wasn't a starter is because he was the last of the Big 3 to get drafted, much like Ginobody at SAS.

Assuming the rest of the trade remains equal (Lamb and picks are gone)

Lin / Harden >> Westbrook / Martin
Westbrook and Rose are the most athletic PG's in the league. When they are on, they are unstoppable. Same thing can be said with young Wade or Kobe. If you look at it from defensive point of view, Harden is easier to guard than RW/Rose or young Wade/Kobe. I don't think it has to to do what position they play but the athleticism in individual player.
 
tinman is offline Old 10-30-2012, 08:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heypartner View Post
as planned. tinman is a little slow sometimes.
ah.

I think both are great scorers, I think Westbrook is out of control sometimes, while Harden does play within the system.

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I think Harden summed it up best. When asked afterwards why so many players want to work out with Dream, Harden said, “Did you see his highlights? Did you see what he did when he played?”
 
DonatasFanboy is offline Old 10-30-2012, 08:13 PM   #7
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ok, your final thesis involves Lin, but you don't want this to be about Lin...

Even if you consider all those players equal,
Lin / Harden < Westbrook / Martin simply because those pieces makes more sense together.
Lin will have to adjust quite a bit and bring more value off the ball, otherwise he or Harden (or both) are going to be underused.

Regarding Harden vs. Westbrook, I think Westbrook is the better overall player right now.
They are both very young, both have been rapidly improving, both have obvious (but fixable) flaws. It's hard to predict how they'll compare at their peaks.

Positions don't really matter. The league is full of 'stoppers', especially at wing spots. If you are a superstar, you are going to be well defended, regardless if you are the #1 SG or #5 PG.

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heypartner is offline Old 10-30-2012, 09:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonatasFanboy View Post
ok, your final thesis involves Lin, but you don't want this to be about Lin...
no, not really. It is about Westbrook vs Harden in a hypothetical sense. I guess I didn't make my last line explain that well..

People seem to say that without a doubt Westbrook is better than Harden. I question that.

I meant to say, who would you rather have (all things remaining equal) a trade for Harden giving up Martin or a trade for Westbrook giving up Lin.

I still don't think my question can avoid running aground into a Lin thread -- thus why I put this thread in the NBA Dish to give it a try. We shall see.

Last edited by heypartner; 10-30-2012 at 09:20 PM.
 
kuku is offline Old 10-30-2012, 09:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heypartner View Post
no, not really. It is about Westbrook vs Harden in a hypothetical sense. I guess I didn't make my last line explain that well..

People seem to say that without a doubt Westbrook is better than Harden. I question that.

I meant to say, who would you rather have (all thing remaining equal) a trade for Harden giving up Martin or a trade for Westbrook giving up Lin.
Interesting scenario...If you take RW over Lin, there will be serious problems with playmaking and flow of offense. RW will not fit well with KMart in our lineup. They are not good passers and both are ball stoppers. It's not like we have Durant or anything. Who and how else can we score?
 
blunto is offline Old 10-30-2012, 09:32 PM   #10
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If the question is which is the rarer commodity, I agree w/ OP that Harden is more difficult to replace than Westbrook.

If the question is which combo fits better with the Rockets as currently constructed, swapping one backcourt for the other, then I'll take Lin/Harden. Rockets otherwise lack a creator, and Harden is by far the best creator of the four.

Then if you factor in age, time, and contracts and so forth, Lin/Harden makes even more sense for the Rockets than would Westbrook/Martin.

But ask me to choose between these two backcourts for another team, say OKC or Miami, and I'd have a different answer. All depends on the fit with the system.
 
meh is offline Old 10-30-2012, 09:41 PM   #11
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It's hard to say one is better than the other. Westbrook is capable of looking like the best player to ever play the game on some occasions, and the a knucklehead chucker in others. Harden is more consistent, efficient workman like performance.

As for Westbrook not being your prototypical PG, this wasn't a problem last year as they just had Harden initiate plays at times to avoid Westbrook isoing his team. This year OKC's obviously counting on Maynor to fill that role. Whether he can accomplish it, we'll see.
 
jopatmc is offline Old 10-30-2012, 10:15 PM   #12
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If they both stay injury free, Harden will turn out to be the more dominant player with the much better career. Harden is the better player of the two.

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C1UTCH-C1TY is offline Old 10-30-2012, 10:47 PM   #13
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I believe it was Royce Young (daily thunder) who said on twitter that he'd rather have Westbrook than Rondo AND Harden.

But I'd rather have Westbrook and Martin, unless Lin proves this season that his play last season wasn't a fluke.
 
Mr. Clutch is online now Old 10-30-2012, 10:52 PM   #14
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I think Harden is much better and I don't think it's particularly close.

Westbrook to me is just a high usage player who isn't particularly efficient. He rebounds well, but his decision making is poor and his defense is overrated.
 
t_mac1 is offline Old 10-30-2012, 10:56 PM   #15
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Westbrook is becoming pretty underrated now it's becoming unfunny.

If you saw the Olympics and hear what those coaches/teammates said about him, you know where he stands in this league. He's a top 10 player RIGHT NOW.
 
Easy is offline Old 10-30-2012, 10:58 PM   #16
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I like Harden better. I don't know who is the better player at this point. Both can still improve. But Harden is clearly a smarter player. I believe intelligence is one of the most underrated talent in basketball.

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haoafu is offline Old 10-30-2012, 11:12 PM   #17
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Both are great players. Given they already have a top wing in Durant, WB is better fit for OKC along with Ibaka to form a guard-wing-defensive force combination.

Harden is a better fit for us, since he's the youngest for us to build in long term. Also his unselfish team oriented style fit us better. Lin is the same kind of team first guy, so I expect them to mesh well and actually support and setup each other down the road.

We are so lucky to get harden instead of Gasol, Nene, DH rental...No team other than Miami, lakers and OKC has any real chance of contending in at least the next three years, so our strategy is reasonable and should pay off in a few years.
 
Air Langhi is offline Old 10-30-2012, 11:16 PM   #18
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Harden is more efficient, but when Westbrook is on he is a one man wrecking crew. RW is a super athlete.
 
plutoblue11 is offline Old 10-30-2012, 11:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t_mac1 View Post
Westbrook is becoming pretty underrated now it's becoming unfunny.

If you saw the Olympics and hear what those coaches/teammates said about him, you know where he stands in this league. He's a top 10 player RIGHT NOW.
Not the biggest Russell Westbrook fan in the world, but as versatile as Harden is, he doesn't compare quite as well to Westbrook.

Even on Harden's best days, I doubt he's that much better than Westbrook. Much easier to take Harden out of the game (watch the Lakers series and NBA Finals from last year). In midst of RW's boneheaded moves and lack of initiating offense for others, he's quite near unstoppable at times as scorer in the same way Melo, LeBron, Rose, and Durant. Harden's much easier to take out of the game, again just watch some of the playoff series, teams were much more capable of neutralizing Harden, instead Westbrook. Harden still a better facilitator, but I don't think it compares as heavily to dominating stretches that Westbrook can offer a team.

It's funny how people are not discussing their defensive abilities, which I give a greater edge to Westbrook.

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BigBenito is offline Old 10-30-2012, 11:31 PM   #20
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