Why We Should Keep Our "Assets"

darmor90 · 07-17-2012, 04:09 PM

Asset: an item of value owned.

Based on the small taste of summer league play, it's looking like the Rox have just had a pretty good draft. All 4 of our rooks seem to have talent, some more than others. With all the truth and rumors about the Rox trading their assets for the possibility of Dwight long term and "anti-value" (Turkoglu's contract, etc.), I have to say we should keep our value. Some deals that have been reported have been ludicrous. Dwight is a great talent no doubt and would love to have him, if he stays. Some may think we have to take this chance in order to win a championship, what I say is that if we keep building our talent pool then a better deal is bound to come along.
For Example, in the mid 2000's our core of Yao, Francis, and Mobley kept us competitive enough while not really being title contenders. But it was that core that landed us T-Mac. Ok we did not win with Yao and TMac, but if I had another chance to make that trade I would (they would have been contenders if they could just be healthy!). The point I'm trying to make is we can afford to hold out on another deal. I applaud Morey that he is so willing to make a trade to make us better, but giving up value for no value is insane.
Another thing, I'm not saying we will be better off without Dwight in the short term. In fact it's looking like it could get real ugly. Early 2000's Rockets ugly. But I'd rather watch our young talent develop, not to mention get some lotto picks along the way, than to watch Dwight complain for a year and leave us with Turkoglu, Duhon, and Richardson.

We should keep our "assets" and cultivate them enough to trade for better guaranteed talent

topfive · 07-17-2012, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darmor90

Asset: an item of value owned.

Based on the small taste of summer league play, it's looking like the Rox have just had a pretty good draft. All 4 of our rooks seem to have talent, some more than others. With all the truth and rumors about the Rox trading their assets for the possibility of Dwight long term and "anti-value" (Turkoglu's contract, etc.), I have to say we should keep our value. Some deals that have been reported have been ludicrous. Dwight is a great talent no doubt and would love to have him, if he stays. Some may think we have to take this chance in order to win a championship, what I say is that if we keep building our talent pool then a better deal is bound to come along.
For Example, in the mid 2000's our core of Yao, Francis, and Mobley kept us competitive enough while not really being title contenders. But it was that core that landed us T-Mac. Ok we did not win with Yao and TMac, but if I had another chance to make that trade I would (they would have been contenders if they could just be healthy!). The point I'm trying to make is we can afford to hold out on another deal. I applaud Morey that he is so willing to make a trade to make us better, but giving up value for no value is insane.
Another thing, I'm not saying we will be better off without Dwight in the short term. In fact it's looking like it could get real ugly. Early 2000's Rockets ugly. But I'd rather watch our young talent develop, not to mention get some lotto picks along the way, than to watch Dwight complain for a year and leave us with Turkoglu, Duhon, and Richardson.

We should keep our "assets" and cultivate them enough to trade for better guaranteed talent

If our primary goal was to win a summer league championship, I'd agree completely!

darmor90 · 07-17-2012, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topfive

If our primary goal was to win a summer league championship, I'd agree completely!

Well there's plenty of time to be summer league championships after Dwight jilts us. Look the state of the Rockets isn't going to be good either way. If you think the horrible Dwight trade is gonna make us instantly better then you need to wake up. Stay the course: build talent and be open to trade.

wakkoman05 · 07-17-2012, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topfive

If our primary goal was to win a summer league championship, I'd agree completely!

I LOL'd

Camarograna2 · 07-17-2012, 04:27 PM

Tuff call but i would deal these assets for Howard at the end. Assets are assests and can not compare to a superstar

HamJam · 07-17-2012, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darmor90

Asset: an item of value owned.

Based on the small taste of summer league play, it's looking like the Rox have just had a pretty good draft. All 4 of our rooks seem to have talent, some more than others. With all the truth and rumors about the Rox trading their assets for the possibility of Dwight long term and "anti-value" (Turkoglu's contract, etc.), I have to say we should keep our value. Some deals that have been reported have been ludicrous. Dwight is a great talent no doubt and would love to have him, if he stays. Some may think we have to take this chance in order to win a championship, what I say is that if we keep building our talent pool then a better deal is bound to come along.
For Example, in the mid 2000's our core of Yao, Francis, and Mobley kept us competitive enough while not really being title contenders. But it was that core that landed us T-Mac. Ok we did not win with Yao and TMac, but if I had another chance to make that trade I would (they would have been contenders if they could just be healthy!). The point I'm trying to make is we can afford to hold out on another deal. I applaud Morey that he is so willing to make a trade to make us better, but giving up value for no value is insane.
Another thing, I'm not saying we will be better off without Dwight in the short term. In fact it's looking like it could get real ugly. Early 2000's Rockets ugly. But I'd rather watch our young talent develop, not to mention get some lotto picks along the way, than to watch Dwight complain for a year and leave us with Turkoglu, Duhon, and Richardson.

We should keep our "assets" and cultivate them enough to trade for better guaranteed talent

You make some decent point darmor, but overall I disagree with you and want to take a look at some of the things you say in particular.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darmor90

Some may think we have to take this chance in order to win a championship, what I say is that if we keep building our talent pool then a better deal is bound to come along.

Morey has been amassing assets and looking for a deal for a major star to "come along" for several years now, and it has not happened. The idea that these types of deals are plentiful or happen all the time is incorrect. Plus, even in those deals Morey pursued in the past, the players he was trying to get (Melo, Deron Williams, Gasol or Bosh) have never been the type of player that Howard is. A trade possibility for a player like Howard is extremely rare. You can not pass up on it lightly.

I also want to take a look at our "assets". Take a look at the roster right now. You'll notice, among our young assets, that we have a lot of players who play the same role/position. We have Patterson, Donatus, White, Jones, Parsons, Morris and Jones all competing for time at the 2 forward positions. This means that, without a trade, a huge amount of those players will not get playing time, will not develop and will thus decrease in value. They will, using your terminology, be non-revenue producing assets, and any fiscally sound business planner knows that is not a sound investment strategy.

Overall a trade for Bynum or Howard is going to be hard to watch as it will move a lot of good young players out. But simply collecting talent and waiting for the perfect deal will leave us as a perennial mediocre team with no chance to win a title and no chance to land a major "asset" in the draft. It is all about risk and reward, and Morey should not give away the farm for Howard or Bynum -- but he would be doing the roster a disservice by allowing their talents to be stacked on top of each other and languish on the shelf. In other words, not only can we afford to overpay for a star center, we can not afford not to.

topfive · 07-17-2012, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darmor90

Well there's plenty of time to be summer league championships after Dwight jilts us. Look the state of the Rockets isn't going to be good either way. If you think the horrible Dwight trade is gonna make us instantly better then you need to wake up. Stay the course: build talent and be open to trade.

The Dwight trade would make us instantly better than we are NOW, that's for sure. And I would be expecting more Morey shuffling and juggling to land us a secondary talent before the start of the season. He's not going to just take the rest of the summer off if we make that huge trade.

darmor90 · 07-17-2012, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camarograna2

Tuff call but i would deal these assets for Howard at the end. Assets are assests and can not compare to a superstar

The Rockets trading for a superstar is a fallacy. The Rockets are not trading for a superstar in Dwight, they are trading for the chance of him staying long term; actually a very low chance of him staying. I think there is a bigger picture to be seen in making deals for superstars, just because we a have potential deal does not mean we should take it no matter what. This Dwight deal is a bad deal without his guarantee of staying. Stay the course and wait for another star to fall.

coachbadlee · 07-17-2012, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topfive

The Dwight trade would make us instantly better than we are NOW, that's for sure.

And when he leaves the team will be instantly worse than what it is now. For years. Thats for sure.

topfive · 07-17-2012, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darmor90

The Rockets trading for a superstar is a fallacy. The Rockets are not trading for a superstar in Dwight, they are trading for the chance of him staying long term; actually a very low chance of him staying.

According to the odds, there's a 100% chance of him staying -- no player has ever walked away as a free agent and left MAX money on the table. EVER.

Your "very low chance" is all in your head and has absolutely nothing to back it up except for a few third-party Twitter quotes.

CheukLau · 07-17-2012, 04:52 PM

There is already a similar article:
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=223538

Camarograna2 · 07-17-2012, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darmor90

The Rockets trading for a superstar is a fallacy. The Rockets are not trading for a superstar in Dwight, they are trading for the chance of him staying long term; actually a very low chance of him staying. I think there is a bigger picture to be seen in making deals for superstars, just because we a have potential deal does not mean we should take it no matter what. This Dwight deal is a bad deal without his guarantee of staying. Stay the course and wait for another star to fall.

stay or leave we still needed to relieve the cap space to sign stars.

darmor90 · 07-17-2012, 05:03 PM

HamJam:
Yes it's true deals to get superstars are not that common, but then again this is not a deal to get a superstar. This is a deal to get a chance at a superstar. These two concepts should not ignored. Also, I'm not opposed to trading our assets for a Dwight rental if the price is right. It's just that most packages I've seen are too horrible for a rental. I mean come on New York only gave up Danilo, Felton, Mozgov, Chandler and picks for a GUARANTEED Carmelo; with really Danilo being the only one worth trading for (there's an argument for Felton, who they flipped for Andre Miller). The Nets gave a ton for Deron in a high lotto pick and Derrick Favors. That might be worth it, but I doubt they win a championship now without Dwight and all their money tied up. The risk for getting Deron unguaranteed is easier to do though when you are in Brooklyn.

And as for the talent to be sitting on top of each other, I'm a firm believer in the cream rising to the top. I won't play Morris if he does not earn his minutes like Parsons does. If our picks don't produce, don't play them. If Jones, Montiejunas, and White (who can play the 3 as well) play better than Patterson, don't play Patterson. You can still also make trades. For example, with Lowry sitting on the bench, you can flip Brooks for Dragic and a 1. With Bud on the bench, flip Battier for a 1. With Parson's on a good contract, flip Bud for a 1. Morey has done a good job recycling our talent and keeping our pool of value fresh.

darmor90 · 07-17-2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topfive

According to the odds, there's a 100% chance of him staying -- no player has ever walked away as a free agent and left MAX money on the table. EVER.

Your "very low chance" is all in your head and has absolutely nothing to back it up except for a few third-party Twitter quotes.

Well you're almost right; Amare, Lebron, and Bosh didn't leave max money on the table, they worked out a sign and trade with their former teams. But either way, they were going to leave.

liveguy · 07-17-2012, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topfive

If our primary goal was to win a summer league championship, I'd agree completely!

Trading for Dwight is not going to get you a REAL LEAGUE Championship this upcoming season.

You have ONE season with him, (more likely half a season) soooo.....it would be a waste to have him for a season, lose the talent AND him.... and then be assed out with a buncha BS fodder the NETS trade to us in a sign and trade mid season.

Oh and.....he still hasn't started running yet per that suspect twitter DM.

Yeah yeah....he can change his mind.

Yeah right....

topfive · 07-17-2012, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darmor90

Well you're almost right; Amare, Lebron, and Bosh didn't leave max money on the table, they worked out a sign and trade with their former teams. But either way, they were going to leave.

And either way, the Rockets don't get screwed. If he really doesn't want to be here, we'll be able to move him elsewhere -- but he won't just walk via free agency -- there's simply too much guaranteed money at stake. We either keep him or get something of value in return for him. It's not a total-disaster "leave our franchise in shambles for years" scenario like so many are predicting.

HamJam · 07-17-2012, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darmor90

HamJam:
....And as for the talent to be sitting on top of each other, I'm a firm believer in the cream rising to the top. I won't play Morris if he does not earn his minutes like Parsons does. If our picks don't produce, don't play them. If Jones, Montiejunas, and White (who can play the 3 as well) play better than Patterson, don't play Patterson. You can still also make trades. For example, with Lowry sitting on the bench, you can flip Brooks for Dragic and a 1. With Bud on the bench, flip Battier for a 1. With Parson's on a good contract, flip Bud for a 1. Morey has done a good job recycling our talent and keeping our pool of value fresh.

Excellent point on Morey having done a good job of recycling talent that is no longer needed -- that does indeed seem to be a strength of his.

I'm still in favor of a Bynum or Howard trade, but I like the group of youngsters as well (especially Parsons, White and Jones), and will be excited about next season even if a trade for one of the top centers in the league does not get done.

darmor90 · 07-17-2012, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topfive

And either way, the Rockets don't get screwed. If he really doesn't want to be here, we'll be able to move him elsewhere -- but he won't just walk via free agency -- there's simply too much guaranteed money at stake. We either keep him or get something of value in return for him. It's not a total-disaster "leave our franchise in shambles for years" scenario like so many are predicting.

If you think losing Lebron, Bosh, and Amare for very high 1's and 2's is not getting screwed. Those sign and trades were not fair value trades, rather they were small compensation for the former stars teams.

darmor90 · 07-17-2012, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HamJam

Excellent point on Morey having done a good job of recycling talent that is no longer needed -- that does indeed seem to be a strength of his.

I'm still in favor of a Bynum or Howard trade, but I like the group of youngsters as well (especially Parsons, White and Jones), and will be excited about next season even if a trade for one of the top centers in the league does not get done.

Well I can respectfully agree to disagree. Morey's ability to recycle talent is enough to hold out for another opportunity to capitalize...

when does John Wall or Demarcus Cousins become free agents lol

Mirri3000 · 07-17-2012, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liveguy

Trading for Dwight is not going to get you a REAL LEAGUE Championship this upcoming season.

You have ONE season with him, (more likely half a season) soooo.....it would be a waste to have him for a season, lose the talent AND him.... and then be assed out with a buncha BS fodder the NETS trade to us in a sign and trade mid season.

Oh and.....he still hasn't started running yet per that suspect twitter DM.

Yeah yeah....he can change his mind.

Yeah right....

You need to read up on NBA salaries and history maybe. Your concern is valid, but your approach is pitiful. Ad nauseum, its been stated, no one walks from max dollars. He is going to the nets? really? call his bluff, and its a full bluff. He isnt signing for a 3y 9 mil deal with the nets and if you believe it, you need to quit posting to hide your face. He isnt walking because he has NO WHERE to walk to.