"tweeners", better know as Hybrid 4's, are the next big thing in the NBA.

[W22_STREAK]

Theres been a lot of discussions, mostly negative, about how we have so many tweeners on this roster and Morey keens on drafting those supposed "tweeners".

Its almost certain the word "tweener" carries a negative connotation around here on Clutchfans BBS.

However, I really disagree about the popular sentiment (as noted, mostly negative) towards those type of players.

They really should be called "Hybrid 4's", and not "tweeners" (because of the negative connotation associated with the term.

Think about it, the NBA isn't the same as it was in the previous eras. New breed of point guards are Russell Westbrook and John Wall and Kyrie Iring, who are associated as much as with scoring as they are with distributing. The mold of the elite point guard have moved on from the "traditional PG", e.g. John Stockton, towards "all-round PG", e.g. Russell Westbrook

So in the same sense, the power forward position has moved on from the traditional mold of banging on the low block and muscling in the paint exclusively. The new generation of Power Forwards really fit well with the typical description of the "tweener'. That is, be able to shoot from the outside, are more finesse than power, have a wide array of skills, a more complete skillset, operate often away from the paint, have a variety of scoring areas.

That is why teams were so successful playing their SF at the PF position. The best 2 teams in the NBA are the most successful when their SF is playing at the PF spot. All through the finals LeBron played a massive amount of PF, while OKC is ultra-efficient when Kevin Durant is playing PF.

The traditional PF now moves to the C spot. E.g. LaMarcus Aldridge helps his team way more when he is at C than he is at PF.

So Morey knows what he's doing. He didn't draft all those Hybrid 4's by accident or because he couldn't find traditional power forwards.

And we have plenty of them on our team. Once Scola is gone, the doubters here can see the results for themselves.

[Rocket River]

The problem is every player wants to be jordan

Guys 6'11 are trying to take people off the dribble
Little to no back to the basket game.
Honestly . . .
I like the Francis and Lowry etc. . but no way guards should be averaging 6 RBs a game
The reason they do is because Power Forward and Centers are at the 3 pt line
and have no idea how to box out.

Which is ok . . cause in the NEW NBA you simply cannot block shots in the lane
cause the guard just jumps into you with no shot whatsoever and fling the ball toward the basket is guaranteed 2 free throws.

Rocket River

[cheke64]

+1 RR

[mike_lu]

I agree, with the qualification that you need to be a 'skilled' hybrid, and bring a 'special' attribute. For the Rockets, eg, Royce White brings playmaking, ability to put the ball on the floor, and draw double teams, and Marcus Morris ability the abuse 3s in the post, and people here should check out Terrence Jones high school clip and see his ball handling skills. Of the 3, Jones had to sacrifice his game most at Kentucky, with the all-star cast there. This is the reason Hollinger had him ranked around 10 in his draft rater.

If not traded, don't be surprised to see Terrence Jones see some time on the court, perhaps even ahead of Royce and Morris, as he is the most likely to be able to play D against both 3s and 4s in the league. The easiest way for tweeners to get on the court in the NBA is if they can defend both positions.

[jayhow92]

Beasley, Randolph, Derrick Williams, and Marcus Morris would say otherwise.

[DREAMsTeam]

[Canadiandude]

Don't care if they are called tweeners or hybrids.

We lack players who can defend the post, rebound, and block shots.
None of which our draftees were proficient at in college.

Which is why we're going after the likes of Omer Asik in FA to balance it out.

[meh]

Originally Posted by jayhow92 Beasley, Randolph, Derrick Williams, and Marcus Morris would say otherwise.

Beasley and Randolph are just not good. There are gazillion "true" PFs and SFs that suck in the NBA too, doesn't mean traditional forwards are bad.

And I'm not going to judge Morris and Williams after one year.

[HamJam]

I don't necessarily disagree with the OP, and I actually like White and Jones (I'm less confident on Jones making it in the NBA, but I've liked him for years, so I'm sticking with it), but the main thing that allows all the 3s to play 5 (like Durant and LeBron) or the 4s to play 5 (like Aldridge) is the ability to defend whoever the opponent is putting out there at those positions.

Durant can definitely play PF against the Heat, because the player they are putting out there at the 4 are either not power forwards (LeBron, Battier) or are not post players (Haslem, Anthony). But if Durant was playing a team with an actual post dominant power forward he could not play the 4, and if the Thunder are relying on him to be able to do so, they would be screwed. Similarly with Aldridge -- I'm sure him at center doesn't go so well in a series against the Lakers.

We watched it last season. Scola can play center against a lot of teams, but teams with a strong post center ate our lunch (i.e. the Lakers and Memphis).

So the real question is, if White and Jones are being depended on to play the 4, can they guard a true 4? With all that said, I think they can -- but we'll see.

Morris I don't like at all. That guy is a tweener, not a Hybrid. We should trade him asap. Patterson I like and he really reminded me of David West as a rookie. I'd choose him over Jones but under White as far as value.

[Pieman2005]

hink about it, the NBA isn't the same as it was in the previous eras. New breed of point guards are Russell Westbrook and John Wall and Kyrie Iring, who are associated as much as with scoring as they are with distributing. The mold of the elite point guard have moved on from the "traditional PG", e.g. John Stockton, towards "all-round PG", e.g. Russell Westbrook

This era of point guards is different because of how crazy athletic they are, not because they're known for scoring as much as passing. That said, Kyrie isn't a new breed of PG. He's a traditional passing, amazing ball handling point guard.

[kjayp]

Good ponts by op... but as others have mentioned - these tweeners cannot adequately defend the paint against traditional banging pfs.... Chuck Hayes is an exception...

[nadman89]

3-4 tweeners are different than 4-5 tweeners

[LewLLOYD]

Originally Posted by Rocket River The problem is every player wants to be jordan Guys 6'11 are trying to take people off the dribble Little to no back to the basket game. Rocket River

Is the lack of a back to the basket game due to rule changes on how fouls are called? Is it easier now to face up? Harder to play back to the basket? Or it is just a neglected/forgotten skill?

[Shroopy2]

Everytime I've happened to see the OP's name, its him/her openly trashing EVERY Rockets move. This was unexpected

[Spacemoth]

I don't care how tall or heavy someone is. The questions are the same. Can you hit a jump shot? Do you have a jump hook? Can you play good team defense? Those and not physique or position will dictate who gets playing time in the front court.

[Canadiandude]

Originally Posted by LewLLOYD Is the lack of a back to the basket game due to rule changes on how fouls are called? Is it easier now to face up? Harder to play back to the basket? Or it is just a neglected/forgotten skill?

Mostly the evolution of media. From ESPN to Youtube. It's all about the highlights, ie breaking your opponents ankles and/or dunking.

When winning matters over making the highlight reels, look at all the current stars flocking to Olajuwon to work on their game.

[roslolian]

LOL let's get this straight: a tweener is different from a hybrid.

Tweener's are what you call players lacking a true position in the NBA. Usually, it applies to forwards who don't have a good enough perimeter touch/are not laterally mobile enough to guard SFs, but then lack the proper length or strength/post play to play PF full time. Examples of these are guys like Rashard Lewis, Anthony Randolph and Charlie Villanueva and IMHO these guys just suck. They can put up good numbers, but they'll never be the player to lead you to a ring because elite PFs will take them to the post and physically abuse them or elite SFs will run circles around them all day.

Hybrids OTH are players that combine traits from both positions and so can switch accordingly. Examples of these are TD (center/pf), Dirk (PF/SF) and Lebron (PF/PG/SF).

These two are not the same, for example a hybrid like TD could play the center position, while a tweener like Villanueva would get eaten alive in the PF spot by guys like Bosh, Amare and LMA. So really, the tweener has a negative connotation because its true. Regarding your post about Rose and WB, I'd say you're confusing different playstyles with the tweener label. Rose and WB are pgs, the problem with them is that they lack the court vision and perimeter accuracy that traditional pgs have, but they make up for it somewhat by being athletic freaks and having that killer instinct. That's not related at all to the tweener/hybrid characteristics, guys like Tony Parker, Andre Miller and Steve Nash can all score aggressively and have scored more than 20 pts a game, but they can also run a team run a team like Stockton does. Are you then gonna call Steve Nash a hybrid guard when he's clearly a pass-first pg?

[leebigez]

Originally Posted by roslolian LOL let's get this straight: a tweener is different from a hybrid. Tweener's are what you call players lacking a true position in the NBA. Usually, it applies to forwards who don't have a good enough perimeter touch/are not laterally mobile enough to guard SFs, but then lack the proper length or strength/post play to play PF full time. Examples of these are guys like Rashard Lewis, Anthony Randolph and Charlie Villanueva and IMHO these guys just suck. They can put up good numbers, but they'll never be the player to lead you to a ring because elite PFs will take them to the post and physically abuse them or elite SFs will run circles around them all day. Hybrids OTH are players that combine traits from both positions and so can switch accordingly. Examples of these are TD (center/pf), Dirk (PF/SF) and Lebron (PF/PG/SF). These two are not the same, for example a hybrid like TD could play the center position, while a tweener like Villanueva would get eaten alive in the PF spot by guys like Bosh, Amare and LMA. So really, the tweener has a negative connotation because its true. Regarding your post about Rose and WB, I'd say you're confusing different playstyles with the tweener label. Rose and WB are pgs, the problem with them is that they lack the court vision and perimeter accuracy that traditional pgs have, but they make up for it somewhat by being athletic freaks and having that killer instinct. That's not related at all to the tweener/hybrid characteristics, guys like Tony Parker, Andre Miller and Steve Nash can all score aggressively and have scored more than 20 pts a game, but they can also run a team run a team like Stockton does. Are you then gonna call Steve Nash a hybrid guard when he's clearly a pass-first pg?

Great post! Let me add, in the nba, it used to be 2g,2f,1c. When I 1st start watching nba in like 77-78, there really wasn't any position definition. Think about showtime lakers who was the pg,nixon or magic? who was the pf, worth,rambis,or green. Even with celtics,who was the sf,maxwell or bird? Really what its about is having elite players or talents,not marginal talent. The physical attribut and the skill is what determines the success and fluidity of guys rather than not having a position. Dj and ainge both started the offense and defended pg and sg. I think its great to have guys who can be multiple and save roster spots.

[deshen]

I disagree. it is just a matter of how well you match up with other teams. if you can win titles with 5 guards/forwards, so be it. The current problem is we are in unfavored position playing with most of other teams.

[Shroopy2]

When it comes down to it, its still about putting round ball through round hoop. And about who has the talent to do that. Its just if 5 guys on the court can put it in effectively, while STOPPING the other team from doing the same.

GOOD coaches and good GMs arent married to the concept of "traditional" positional. Its about skillsets. The college game these days more than ever has teams putting out the best gunners. Teams will go 4 guard lineups, as long as those 4 can fill it up more than the other team every time out.

There's just the realities that combined length, athleticism, ballhandling and shooting touch are coveted skills thats most effective. Davidson college might win their division with 4 shorter guards. It allows them to close a gap between themselves and elite programs. But against teams wth lengthier, explosive players like Kentucky and Duke they're gonna have a tougher time winning.