Noah available for 1st round pick + trade exception?

[Carl Herrera]

This was posted in the Deng thread, but it's really a different topic:

The Bulls want to give Omer Asik and Taj Gibson new deals, so they’re exploring ways to trade Luol Deng and/or Joakim Noah to teams that can send them a trade exception and a No. 1 pick.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...#ixzz1ya3l8wtQ


If a deal is to be officially consummated on draft night, the only two teams with the cap room to eat Noah's $12 million salary while giving them a trade exception for almost the entire amount of his contract are Toronto and Sacramento. My guess is that these two teams are not looking to give up the 5th or 8th pick for Noah while adding his salary to their payrolls.

If a deal is to be structured so that the trade partner takes the guy on draft night that CHI wants and have the deal become official in early July (so that the contracts expiring in 2011-12 no longer count against teams caps), this opens up a number of possibilities.

I am not sure how the Rockets value Noah in terms of ability vs. contract $, but it's hard to find someone with his skill sets: 7 footer with mobility, rebounds at a high rate, challenges shots, even has a midrange J and a good passing touch so even though he's not a high scorer, he won't clog up the paint like many centers (looking at you, Kendrick Perkins). Similar to Marcus Camby, except much younger.

I don't think he's someone that you blow all of your cap room on if this hampers your ability to make other deals, but if the Rockets are able to bring in another star (be it Dwight Howard or Gasol), Noah would be a nice complementary piece.

[CJLarson]

Hop on it Morey.

[Outlier]

Damn, he would look good next to Gasol.

[jacoby]

I'd be ecstatic if Joakim Noah played for the Rockets. I'd love to see a defensive lineup of Dragic/Lee/Parsons/Noah/Camby. I'd give up the 2 firsts without a moment's hesitation.

[saleem]

Originally Posted by jacoby I'd be ecstatic if Joakim Noah played for the Rockets. I'd love to see a defensive lineup of Dragic/Lee/Parsons/Noah/Camby. I'd give up the 2 firsts without a moment's hesitation.

I would do that too.

[rolyat93]

I'd definitely jump on that. Would 14 plus Lee(SnT) do it? If they don't want a player back maybe 14 plus Dal pick? Or K Mart to "Sota for 18 then 16 and 18 for him? Just some ideas.

[Carl Herrera]

Originally Posted by Outlier Damn, he would look good next to Gasol.

I don't think either of the two gentlemen in question is particularly good-looking, separately or together, but to each their own.

[ObamaFan]

The Bulls wont do that trade

if they did, you have to do it

[Carl Herrera]

Originally Posted by rolyat93 I'd definitely jump on that. Would 14 plus Lee(SnT) do it? If they don't want a player back maybe 14 plus Dal pick? Or K Mart to "Sota for 18 then 16 and 18 for him? Just some ideas.

Maybe something like the following, it can go down right now or on draft night even under 2011-12 salary numbers.

Houston sends Martin to Minnesota
Houston sends the 16th pick to Chicago
Minnesota sends the 18th pick to Chicago
Minnesota sends Brad Miller ($800K guaranteed), Martell Webster ($645K guaranteed) to Sacramento
Houston sends $3 million cash to Sacramento
Chicago sends Noah to Houston

The nature of the pick or picks given to Chicago can be shifted around without changing the salary cap #s. Hell, give Chicago the 14th pick instead of the 16th or the 18th. The guy they want at 14 might be there at 16th or even 18th anyway.

Seems to give Chicago what it wants: a mid-first round pick or two in a fairly deep draft with no salary in return (thus they receive a $12 million trade exception). They can now sign Asik and later Gibson without having to worry about the luxury tax as much. The picksk also allow them to replace likely departed players without paying too much.

Houston gets Noah whom they need for Martin who is redundant, plus one of their two picks. They still have their other pick, plus Lowry, Scola and other players to make other trades.

Minnesota gets Martin, who is ready to play and fits Rick Adelman for two guys on their way out and a 1st round pick.

Sacramento gets paid $3 million to eat less than $1.5 million in salary. A good financial deal when they are projected to have cap room without any big FA really wanting to go there and with their ownership likely to cheap to spend money anyway.

[rolyat93]

Originally Posted by Carl Herrera Maybe something like the following, it can go down right now or on draft night even under 2011-12 salary numbers. Houston sends Martin to Minnesota Houston sends the 16th pick to Chicago Minnesota sends the 18th pick to Chicago Minnesota sends Brad Miller ($800K guaranteed), Martell Webster ($645K guaranteed) to Sacramento Houston sends $3 million cash to Sacramento Chicago sends Noah to Houston The nature of the pick or picks given to Chicago can be shifted around without changing the salary cap #s. Hell, give Chicago the 14th pick instead of the 16th or the 18th. The guy they want at 14 might be there at 16th or even 18th anyway. Seems to give Chicago what it wants: a mid-first round pick or two in a fairly deep draft with no salary in return (thus they receive a $12 million trade exception). They can now sign Asik and later Gibson without having to worry about the luxury tax as much. The picksk also allow them to replace likely departed players without paying too much. Houston gets Noah whom they need for Martin who is redundant, plus one of their two picks. They still have their other pick, plus Lowry, Scola and other players to make other trades. Minnesota gets Martin, who is ready to play and fits Rick Adelman for two guys on their way out and a 1st round pick. Sacramento gets paid $3 million to eat less than $1.5 million in salary. A good financial deal when they are projected to have cap room without any big FA really wanting to go there and with their ownership likely to cheap to spend money anyway.

I see you've put more thought into this than I have.

Would this trade kill you a little inside because it means we won't go after Asik?

[CantBeRight]

Originally Posted by Carl Herrera I don't think either of the two gentlemen in question is particularly good-looking, separately or together, but to each their own.

oh carl

[Carl Herrera]

Originally Posted by rolyat93 I see you've put more thought into this than I have. Would this trade kill you a little inside because it means we won't go after Asik?

Not really, I like both of these guys, but you really only have room for one. This is why Chicago may have to make a decision between the two of them now that Asik hits free agency. Asik is bigger and better matches up against the stronger centers. However, Noah has more well-rounded offensive skills.

Another formulation:

To CHI: Dalembert+Morris+the 16th pick (or maybe even the 14th)
To HOU: Noah

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=869v4r9

Salary works. Chicago gets a 2012 draft pick, another young player on a rookie contract (if Morris pans out, maybe they can better afford trading Deng, too), and a draft pick. Dalembert they can cut for salary space or they can keep to share minutes with Asik. Dalembert's contract expires next year before they have to pay Gibson so it works out for the Bulls timing-wise.

Anyway, Hoopsworld (yeah, I know) says there's a Dalembert+16th pick trade in the works, I wonder if this is the kind of deal they are talking about.

[J.R.]

Give 'em Martin or Lee or 14 or 16 or Martin + picks or Lee + picks or something, I don't know.

Git'r done.

[Cohete Rojo]

Hell no. Haven't heard anything about Noah's recovery from his ankle injury which tells me it ain't going so well. Plus he seems to be as good as he'll ever be. If I were GM I would not want to trade away the potential of Terrence Jones or Meyers Leonard or whoever falls to #14 for Noah's bum ankle. But I am not the GM and something tells me that this would appeal to Morrey.

[J.R.]

Translated (from within last 2 weeks):

Today, the France team begins preparing for the 2012 Olympic Games in INSEP. And Joakim Noah is not ready to join the group France. The pivot of the Bulls has indeed expressed on the state of his ankle - he was injured against Philadelphia in early May - this morning in an interview with L'Equipe.

"I tried to regain some basketball, but I'm still a little sore. [...] My left leg is not at the top, I can not push it, I can not run well. I am not at all ready. We'll discuss all this with coach Collet. [...] Hopefully my ankle will hold, because for now I am not well. This is not a favorable situation.

I prefer to stay positive and tell me that time is on our side. We'll see how it will evolve. We'll know more in two, three weeks ahead, and then we'll see when I can come join the team of France. The Olympics is also a goal in my season. But I want to return to France in shape. I want to be, but one hundred percent of my ability, not diminished. "

[Samdogg36]

Injuries are a concern but I love Noah game...I'm a gator fan so of course I would love for the rockets to pick him up (then make a move for Beal)...when healthy Noah is one of the best centers in the game and his passion and intensity is something that the rockets could really use!

[ROXTXIA]

Originally Posted by Carl Herrera To CHI: Dalembert+Morris+the 16th pick (or maybe even the 14th) To HOU: Noah

I've been thinking along these lines lately. Chicago has some major contracts on their books, and Noah would be perfect for this team skillwise (if not salary cap-wise).

I don't know 'bout that ankle of his, but it'll take time to heal; hopefully he doesn't try to play hero and play in the Olympics.

But I wouldn't throw Marcus Morris out there for the Bulls. I know you would, Carl. You gave up on Morris long ago, if you ever supported him. But the salaries have to match.

Martin + 16 makes some sense, as they have Asik and some dude they drafted who's playing overseas to be their centers next year. But the rumor du jour sends out Dalembert.

[jopatmc]

Trading for Noah would be very short-sighted unless he's the last piece to a championship team. He would not be that here.

Think about it. They want to move him for a lottery pick because???? Because they'd rather pay Asik less than $49 million over the next 4 years and they feel like Asik can replace him. That should tell you something.

Here's the truth. Noah is not worth his contract under the new CBA. This is a cost cutting move or an attempt to cost cut while keeping the talent level the same.

Also, Noah is a one-way player. I don't care that you think he can hit that 15-footer. He can only hit it when he's got an hour and a half to launch that shot put from his hip because the defense intentionally lets him shoot it. Noah has no offensive game. He's a one-way player.

So, if you're Morey, would you rather trade away an asset to make room for Noah's salary, thereby limiting your other moves, and throw away a draft pick in the process, a draft pick that could turn out to be Tyler Zeller, a younger big man who would be on a rookie contract making about one-eighth as much as Noah over the next 4 years, and giving you a better jump shot and better offense than Noah could ever dream about giving you OR would you rather just keep your pick and simply bid for Asik as a restricted free agent and perhaps lock him down for about $30-40 million over 4 years???

It makes no sense for Morey to trade for Noah. He's just not that good. The only reason Morey would trade for him would be to shovel him to Orlando to get Dwight or possibly to send to the Lakers to get Gasol. There's absolutely no way Morey trades straight up with Chicago to bring Noah in here. It makes no sense.

The Bulls have a big time problem. Their only superstar is down for basically a whole season. They are in danger of going to the lottery next season. They have NO CHANCE to compete for a title next season. And they've got two gargantuan contracts in Deng and Noah along with a boat anchor contract in Boozer that are eating up their salary cap. Can they trade Deng and Noah? Probably. Will they get a really high lottery pick for either guy? Doubtful....unless they find a sucker.

Perhaps Deng to Memphis, Gay to Cleveland, and the #4 pick to Chicago??? I seriously doubt it, but this must be what they are trying to do. Or perhaps get Portland to bite on Noah with the #6 pick and GS to take on Deng for #7 then ship both picks to Charlotte or Cleveland for 2 or 4?


No team should trade for Deng or Noah unless they represent the final piece to a championship contender.

[Dreamin]

NO way they give up 2nd and 3rd best player. Especially when they are looking to contend.

Korver, Brewer and Watson have $12.5 mill worth in non guaranteed contracts. They might even be team options. Bulls can just dump those guys. They could look to trade Boozer as well. Gordon and Daye for Boozer.

[jayhow92]

Just curious. How well would a Pau-Noah frontcourt work?