Has LBJ now surpassed Kobe?

[clippy]

He passed Kobe a long time ago, but this title was necessary for the world to recognize it. Casual fans don't appreciate that titles are a team accomplishment, and up until last year LeBron never had a team comparable to what Kobe has had his whole career (except for three years when he missed the playoffs or was knocked out in the first round.. something prime LeBron never did). Kobe has pretty good longevity but basically he's a glorified chucker, nowhere close to the basketball machine that is LeBron James. The world is starting to recognize this thanks to the recent playoff performance, and in the next few years it won't even be a question.

[ObamaFan]

Originally Posted by amaru In his prime......yes.

Nah Kobe was in his prime in 2006 and 2007 and they were a garbage team


Kobe doesnt make his teammates better like LeBron does

[leebigez]

Originally Posted by KingLeoric Dude Lebron has been great but don't quickly forget what Kobe has accomplished and what he was capable of.

Look at kobe in the finals. If lebron got to play with shaq in his prime,he would've won 6 rings easy. If lebron had gasol and a bynum,he would won multiple rings.

[gmoney411]

Originally Posted by clippy He passed Kobe a long time ago, but this title was necessary for the world to recognize it. Casual fans don't appreciate that titles are a team accomplishment, and up until last year LeBron never had a team comparable to what Kobe has had his whole career (except for three years when he missed the playoffs or was knocked out in the first round.. something prime LeBron never did). Kobe has pretty good longevity but basically he's a glorified chucker, nowhere close to the basketball machine that is LeBron James. The world is starting to recognize this thanks to the recent playoff performance, and in the next few years it won't even be a question.

So if you replace Kobe with Lebron on those Lakers teams you think they beat the Suns?

[clippy]

Originally Posted by gmoney411 So if you replace Kobe with Lebron on those Lakers teams you think they beat the Suns?

Um, absolutely? Considering that LBJ got the Finals with a worse team than that (he had no one as good as Odom on that team). Even if you say that that competition in the East was weak, the Detroit team they beat in the ECF was still better than the Suns (who were without Amare and went 7 games with the Clippers, mind you). In fact, that Suns team was basically Nash + Marion + scrubs .. not really different from Kobe + Odom + scrubs.

[The_Yoyo]

Honestly if anyone is the second coming of Jordan its Kobe Bryant, he just is not as good as Jordan

If anyone is the second coming of Magic Johnson, its LeBron James, but James could be even more spectacular than Magic was.

Both James and Bryant are once in a generation talents and all of us here should appreciate that we got/get to see them play along with guys like Duncan, Garnett, Durant etc.

[clippy]

Kobe is in the Jordan mold but there is literally nothing he does at the level of Jordan, except maybe slightly better long range shooting. So really he's in the tier with VC, TMac, AI, Allen, etc. He just had great teammates and excellent longevity.

LeBron is different because there has never been a player in the modern era that is like him. He is a player with the size of Karl Malone and the skill of Magic Johnson. When all is said and done, he will be ranked far higher than Kobe (smart fans rank him higher now), simply because he brings a lot more to the table. He doesn't need five rings to rationalize that because rings are a product of the team and the competition at the time.

[gmoney411]

Originally Posted by clippy Um, absolutely? Considering that LBJ got the Finals with a worse team than that (he had no one as good as Odom on that team). Even if you say that that competition in the East was weak, the Detroit team they beat in the ECF was still better than the Suns (who were without Amare and went 7 games with the Clippers, mind you). In fact, that Suns team was basically Nash + Marion + scrubs .. not really different from Kobe + Odom + scrubs.

Borid Diaw was far from a scrub back then and Barbosa was one of the better 6th men in the league. Shawn Marion was also a much better player than Odom. Lebron on that Lakers team with no shooters would have had some problems.

[javal_lon]

Lebron is in a class by himself... **** comparing him to Jordan(scorer) and Magic (passer)..... Were gonna be comparing someone else to Lebron 20 years from now

[gmoney411]

Originally Posted by clippy Kobe is in the Jordan mold but there is literally nothing he does at the level of Jordan, except maybe slightly better long range shooting. So really he's in the tier with VC, TMac, AI, Allen, etc. He just had great teammates and excellent longevity. LeBron is different because there has never been a player in the modern era that is like him. He is a player with the size of Karl Malone and the skill of Magic Johnson. When all is said and done, he will be ranked far higher than Kobe (smart fans rank him higher now), simply because he brings a lot more to the table. He doesn't need five rings to rationalize that because rings are a product of the team and the competition at the time.

You know its a good thing we have you around to tell us who the smart fans are. I'm sure you think plenty of guys that played in the league are idiots because many have often said that they think Kobe is a better player than Lebron. You should really stop trying to sound all knowing and realize that they are two different players and it is debatable who is better. Larry Legend said he would rather play with Kobe just a few months ago.

[JayGoogle]

Well folks need to understand.

Lebron is the more COMPLETE player, does not make him the better player though.

Is Magic better than Jordan? Magic was the more complete player most will probably agree...but Jordan got it done.

Great players can in a sense be one dimensional, it's results that matter. Perfect example in another sport, lots of folks will say Arian Foster is the most complete HB in the NFL...but still not better than Peterson...because what Peterson does he does really well and you can't stop it.

That's what Kobe is, not a 'glorified' chucker. Kobe in his prime drained those shots with ease. I really wish people could rewind and watch Kobe back in his prime.

If you want to say Lebron is better than Kobe because he's the more complete player fine. I guess he's better than Bird too then.

I'll wait until their careers are done though but right now no, no Lebron has not surpassed Kobe and I'm sure he'll even tell you that. Yeah rings are a team accomplishment but in basketball all the greats are measured by it fair or not.

[ObamaFan]

Originally Posted by gmoney411 You know its a good thing we have you around to tell us who the smart fans are. I'm sure you think plenty of guys that played in the league are idiots because many have often said that they think Kobe is a better player than Lebron. You should really stop trying to sound all knowing and realize that they are two different players and it is debatable who is better. Larry Legend said he would rather play with Kobe just a few months ago.

That comment was taken out of context


Larry Bird also said that LeBron was better than Kobe too


Its just why would Larry Bird wanna play with another player who plays exactly like him on the offensive end

LeBron like Larry Bird are more unselfish players, so you wont want to play with another player similar to you.

Perfect example: You think Kobe would want to play with Michael Jordan or AGAINIST HIM?

[gmoney411]

Originally Posted by ObamaFan That comment was taken out of context Larry Bird also said that LeBron was better than Kobe too Its just why would Larry Bird wanna play with another player who plays exactly like him on the offensive end LeBron like Larry Bird are more unselfish players, so you wont want to play with another player similar to you. Perfect example: You think Kobe would want to play with Michael Jordan or AGAINIST HIM?

Bird said that LeBron was by far the best player in the league right now. That does not mean he thinks LeBron is better than Kobe because Kobe is already past his prime and LeBron is clearly the better player right now. When asked of any current player he would want to play with he responded Kobe. I'm not sure why you think Lebron and Bird couldn't exist. They would compliment each other pretty well actually. Jordan and Kobe however do the same thing on the court so it would be too redundant to have both.

[clippy]

Originally Posted by gmoney411 You know its a good thing we have you around to tell us who the smart fans are. I'm sure you think plenty of guys that played in the league are idiots because many have often said that they think Kobe is a better player than Lebron. You should really stop trying to sound all knowing and realize that they are two different players and it is debatable who is better. Larry Legend said he would rather play with Kobe just a few months ago.

They are two different players but it isn't debatable who is better. Kobe does one thing better than LeBron, and that's shoot. LeBron is a better driver, passer, rebounder, defender, is far more efficient and has a far better contract. I guess if you have a team where you have absolutely no outside shooting, you might want Kobe instead of LeBron... but then again shooters are a dime a dozen in this league and it would be smarter to just take LeBron and pick up some spot up shooters.

When these two played on the same team in the Olympics, it was clear that LeBron was better (the Kobetards will point to one big shot Kobe hit in the final game without noting that LeBron outplayed Kobe in every game). This was four years ago when the gap was closer (but still not that close).

If some NBA players think Kobe is better, that's their call, but there are plenty of players who can play the game without being able to evaluate talent (this is why many players are awful coaches and awful GMs).

[gmoney411]

Originally Posted by clippy If some NBA players think Kobe is better, that's their call, but there are plenty of players who can play the game without being able to evaluate talent (this is why many players are awful coaches and awful GMs).

How about Larry Bird? Former coach of the year and current executive of the year. Is he not a good evaluator of talent? You think you are the smart one compared to Bird?

[J-Tang]

I don't understand how people can keep saying "If LBJ had Gasol on his team he would have won multiple titles" or "If LBJ had Shaq he would have won multiple titles."

I actually find that highly doubtful considering in REAL LIFE Lebron had Wade AND Bosh and STILL lost in 2010.

[fmp087]

Originally Posted by amaru In his prime......yes.

Post-Shaq

04-05: 34-48
05-06: 45-37
06-07: 42-40
07-08: 35-20 before gasol trade; 22-5 after gasol trade.

[daywalker02]

Originally Posted by J-Tang I don't understand how people can keep saying "If LBJ had Gasol on his team he would have won multiple titles" or "If LBJ had Shaq he would have won multiple titles." I actually find that highly doubtful considering in REAL LIFE Lebron had Wade AND Bosh and STILL lost in 2010.

the same thing.... Kobe had Malone, Shaq and Payton....
Chemistry has to grow

[clippy]

Originally Posted by J-Tang I don't understand how people can keep saying "If LBJ had Gasol on his team he would have won multiple titles" or "If LBJ had Shaq he would have won multiple titles." I actually find that highly doubtful considering in REAL LIFE Lebron had Wade AND Bosh and STILL lost in 2010.

Yes, and in REAL LIFE Kobe only won a title 3/8 years with Shaq, who was by far the most dominant player in the league (one year he had Karl Malone and Gary Payton too and was supposed to win a laugher in the Finals against a Detroit team that went 7 games with the Nets who got swept by the Lakers two years prior).

The fact is that LBJ must be pretty amazing if the expectation is that he will win the title in his first year, and every year, just because he finally has some good teammates. He didn't and won't, but he's going to win a lot more because he is that good.

[clippy]

Originally Posted by gmoney411 How about Larry Bird? Former coach of the year and current executive of the year. Is he not a good evaluator of talent? You think you are the smart one compared to Bird?

Well, I contend that if Bird had a choice between Kobe and LeBron for his Pacers, it'd be a no-brainer, but he can't say that out loud because he respects Kobe a great deal.

He actually never said Kobe was better than LeBron (I believe he called LeBron the best player in the league). He said that he'd rather play with Kobe if he could play with one for a single season because Kobe had a competitive drive that was similar to Bird's. Although after this year, his opinion of LeBron may have changed since LeBron just put on a competitive playoff performance for the ages and surely swayed some doubters who didn't think he had "it".