Seriously, what has Obama accomplished? Absolutely nothing.

[Dubious]

Originally Posted by rage We can't lose against that stupidity.

Relentless stupidity is more powerful than complacent reasoning.

For one thing, it's easier to be fully committed to simpler ideas, when things get more complex, there is more room for nuance, variation and dissension between people who essentially agree.

Also, the 'stupidity' actually plays to the more basic human emotions ingrained by the hundreds of thousands of years pre-dating civilization. Progressive ideas must attempt to overcome those so you are always battling against a handicap.

[nef2005]

Originally Posted by jev5555 Correction Navy SEALS got Osama. Those unamed undercover CIA operatives still operating in Pakistan, got Osama. Obama just picked up the phone.

Yeah, all Obama did was give the approval of the mission against the counsel of Joe Biden and this Robert Gates fellow. After Obama decided that this mission was going to happen, he then decided that the SEAL team would be used instead of bombing the compound, against the wishes of Gen. James Cartwright.

I want to take nothing away from the troops who did this mission. They had to put their necks on the line to bag and tag Osama and they were amazing. That said, how some people can claim that Obama had no role in this and none of the success for a mission he ordered is beyond me.

[Dubious]

Originally Posted by mc mark Got it!So the best thing to do is just ignore the monkey.

The best thing is to accept that this is politics. Always has been, always will be.
But at least in this forum it's a harmless exercise (for entertainment purposes only).

[mc mark]

Originally Posted by Dubious The best thing is to accept that this is politics. Always has been, always will be. But at least in this forum it's a harmless exercise (for entertainment purposes only).

I respectfully disagree

Never in our history have we seen a party so hell bent on denying the legitimacy of a president. Never have we seen the blind vitriol and hatred leveled at a president for no reason other than the fact he is from the other party.

[Hightop]

Democrat Website Publishes List of Obama Accomplishments, Half of Them Are the Names of People He's Killed:

[Classic]

Originally Posted by Hightop Democrat Website Publishes List of Obama Accomplishments, Half of Them Are the Names of People He's Killed:

So the Iraq war officially ended 12/17/11? I was not aware.

[Sweet Lou 4 2]

Originally Posted by Invisible Fan If there are no basso or bigtexxie inanities to slay, the D&D is one sad and boring place reserved for real discussion. At the end of the day, I wouldn't take any of this crap personally. We're all just electrons pissing in the wind. The real difference is outside the door.

More than electrons, or less depending on how you look at it.

I think it would be interesting to see if we could make the D&D into one sad and dull place. It would be really full circle.

Since just a few of us ignoring trollers doesn't do much....and mocking the trollers doesn't do much, what if we mock the responders?

Make fun of them for taking the bait?

[vlaurelio]

Originally Posted by Classic So the Iraq war officially ended 12/17/11? I was not aware.

I guess as far as US military is concerned

[Dubious]

Given the circumstances?



Crisis Wiped Out 18 Years of Household-Wealth Gains, Fed Says

June 12 (Bloomberg) -- The financial crisis wiped out 18 years of gains for the median U.S. household net worth, with a 38.8 percent plunge from 2007 to 2010 that was led by the collapse in home prices, a Federal Reserve study showed.

Median net worth declined to $77,300 in 2010, the lowest since 1992, from $126,400 in 2007, the Fed said in its Survey of Consumer Finances. Mean net worth fell 14.7 percent to a nine- year low of $498,800 from $584,600, the central bank said yesterday in Washington. Almost every demographic group experienced losses, which may hurt retirement prospects for middle-income families, Fed economists said in the report.

"The impact has been a massive destruction of wealth all across the board," said Lance Roberts, who oversees $500 million as chief executive officer of Streettalk Advisors LLC in Houston. "What you see is an economy that's really very, very stressed for the bottom 60 to 70 percent of the population that's struggling just to make ends meet."

The declines in household wealth in the course of the longest and deepest recession since the Great Depression have held back the consumer spending that makes up about 70 percent of the economy. Fed policy makers led by Chairman Ben S. Bernanke meet next week to consider whether the central bank needs to add to its record stimulus after employment grew at the slowest pace in a year in May.

Zero Rates

The Fed has already taken unprecedented steps to boost the economy as it battled the 18-month recession that ended in June 2009, cutting its key interest rate almost to zero and purchasing $2.3 trillion in debt to lower long-term borrowing costs. Even so, the jobless rate has stayed above 8 percent since February 2009, compared with the central bank's long-range goal of 4.9 percent to 6 percent.

"Although declines in the values of financial assets or business were important factors for some families, the decreases in median net worth appear to have been driven most strongly by a broad collapse in house prices," the Fed economists wrote.

The S&P/Case-Shiller U.S. Home Price Index fell 23 percent in the three years through December 2010. The Standard & Poor's 500 Index lost 14 percent in the same period.

The proportion of families with retirement accounts decreased 2.6 points to 50.4 percent during the period, wiping out much of the 3.1 percentage-point increase over the prior three years, the report said.

Retirement Setback

"The most noticeable drops in ownership were among families in the middle-income, middle-wealth, and middle-age groups," the economists said. "Retirement accounts had been growing in importance as a supplement to Social Security and other types of retirement income, and the decrease in ownership in the past three years may represent a setback."

Fed economists conduct the surveys every three years to produce a snapshot of household balance sheets, pensions, income, and demographics that's more detailed than broader reports about the economy. The surveys allow comparisons over time, with a consistent methodology since 1989.

The U.S. added 69,000 jobs last month even as the Fed maintained record stimulus. The economy grew more slowly in the first quarter than previously estimated, expanding at a 1.9 percent annual rate, down from a 2.2 percent prior estimate.

Minutes of the last FOMC meeting April 24-25 showed policy makers said a loss of momentum in growth or increased risks to their economic outlook could warrant additional action to preserve the recovery. Fed policy makers are scheduled to meet June 19-20 in Washington.

Wealthiest Families

Declines in average income were greatest in the wealthiest 10 percent families and for higher education or wealth groups, the survey showed. The housing slump and financial crisis also boosted the dependence on wages as a percentile of net worth for the wealthiest 10 percent.

The top 10 percent by wealth got 55.8 percent of their pre- tax family income from wages in 2010, up from 46.2 percent in 2007, the survey found. The portion earned from capital gains plunged to 2.3 percent from 14.4 percent.

Debt as a share of family assets rose to 16.4 percent from 14.8 percent as asset values declined, the Fed said. For those households with debt in 2010, the median value of debt was unchanged from 2007, while the share of families having debt fell to about 75 percent from 77 percent. Debt payments more than 60 days overdue were reported by 10.8 percent of families in 2010, up from 7.1 percent in the prior survey.

Debt Burdens

"Measures of debt payments relative to income might have been expected to increase," Fed economists wrote. "In fact, total payments relative to total income increased only slightly, and the median of payments relative to income among families with debt fell after having risen between 2004 and 2007. The share of families with high payments relative to their incomes also fell after rising substantially between 2001 and 2007."

The survey was compiled by Fed economists Jesse Bricker, Arthur Kennickell, Kevin Moore and John Sabelhaus in Washington. All dollar figures are expressed in 2010 dollars.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...R601-M5HAK.DTL

[Sweet Lou 4 2]

It didn't wipe out 18 years of wealth for the middle class - that is incorrect. It merely transferred it to someone else.

[RocketMan Tex]

Originally Posted by mc mark I respectfully disagree Never in our history have we seen a party so hell bent on denying the legitimacy of a president. Never have we seen the blind vitriol and hatred leveled at a president for no reason other than the fact he is black.

Fixed it for you....

[Dubious]

Originally Posted by Sweet Lou 4 2 It didn't wipe out 18 years of wealth for the middle class - that is incorrect. It merely transferred it to someone else.

Nope, when the market price of an asset goes down the wealth is lost, stock price or home price. You could say that the inflated price was an illusion in the first place, that it is never actually 'wealth' until it was sold if you want.

If my home was worth $200,000 on the tax rolls and would appraise at $200,000, then the housing market crashes and I can only sell it for $100,000, the buyer is not getting a $200,000 house.

And the local appraisal district is also only collecting taxes on $100,000 now so they lose tax revenue. And if were rental property and I take a capital loss, the Federal Government is out revenue too.

[Sweet Lou 4 2]

Originally Posted by Dubious Nope, when the market price of an asset goes down the wealth is lost, stock price or home price. You could say that the inflated price was an illusion in the first place, that it is never actually 'wealth' until it was sold if you want. If my home was worth $200,000 on the tax rolls and would appraise at $200,000, then the housing market crashes and I can only sell it for $100,000, the buyer is not getting a $200,000 house. And the local appraisal district is also only collecting taxes on $100,000 now too so they lose tax revenue. And if were rental property and I take a capital loss, the Federal Government is out revenue too.

Depends on how they are calculating. Most people value their home at the price they purchase or sell it at. Meaning the value of a home bought for $100k may be $200k but if the family has never refinanced or sold it shows up on the books as $100k. So that is real. If you get appraised to get a home equity, then yes you are right in that regard.

In this recession, most of the people hit were new home buyers who saw their mortgages go underwater and then bailed or been foreclosed on. For those people, the lose in wealth is very very real.

[CometsWin]

Originally Posted by Hightop Democrat Website Publishes List of Obama Accomplishments, Half of Them Are the Names of People He's Killed:

You take issue with Obama killing members of Al-Qaeda? Seriously? Maybe you missed the whole Al-Qaeda declaration of war on America. Let me refresh your memory.

[Dubious]

Stock prices are listed in the paper every day.
Tax appraisals come in the mail once a year.
That's how people value their wealth and financial health.

It depends......sheesh

[no.3 for no.1]

I will say that I am indebted to President Obama for his health care policies, extending coverage for children to 25 has really saved my family from total financial destruction. My brother on December 31 2010 sufferd a seizure, dislocating both shoulders. As he was working for himself he would not have recieved any health insurance, and when all was said and done the hospital bill came in at over a 100 grand. Obama's policies took affect January 1 2011, effectively covering all hospital costs. This may seem like im making it up to the likes of Texx and other obama haters, but I can assure you that this is true. This idea that Obama has done nothing positive as president is not accurate, and I hope this shed some light on it

[Sweet Lou 4 2]

Originally Posted by Dubious Stock prices are listed in the paper every day. Tax appraisals come in the mail once a year. That's how people value their wealth and financial health. It depends......sheesh

Ok, put on your thinking cap for a second. Where do the statistics come from?

Is it a poll where they ask people everyday how much is the value of their e*trade account? Or is it some other source.

How does the wealth of a family get tracked / reported?

[Invisible Fan]

Originally Posted by Sweet Lou 4 2 More than electrons, or less depending on how you look at it. I think it would be interesting to see if we could make the D&D into one sad and dull place. It would be really full circle. Since just a few of us ignoring trollers doesn't do much....and mocking the trollers doesn't do much, what if we mock the responders? Make fun of them for taking the bait?

They're mostly good posters who likely see similar garbage elsewhere. Who am I to argue what they do on their own time....