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View Poll Results: Who wins the series?
Spurs in 4 17 4.24%
Spurs in 5 42 10.47%
Spurs in 6 124 30.92%
Spurs in 7 57 14.21%
OKC in 4 3 0.75%
OKC in 5 7 1.75%
OKC in 6 73 18.20%
OKC in 7 78 19.45%
Voters: 401. You may not vote on this poll

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Spurs vs. Thunder - 2012 Western Conference Finals
Tags:  2012, basketball, nba, spurs, thunder, western conference Tags
Zboy is offline Old 06-07-2012, 01:01 AM   #1821
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I'm just saying if they win a C, it will be an exception to the rule. You have to go back to the Jordan Bulls to find another team to win a C without a serious low post game. And even then, Jordan was doing a lot of posting up from the midblock.

I did see Durant posting up some tonight. But they don't do it enough.......yet. They are not a balanced offensive team. They are the exception.
You are wrong, just like your signature is.

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DVauthrin is offline Old 06-07-2012, 01:01 AM   #1822
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I have to give props to Brooks. He did OK against the Mavs and Lakers but smashing the Spurs 4 games in-a-row after losing the first two can't be argued with. He's the right man for the job.
Agreed. So happy for KD right now. I can't wait to see him play in the finals. Also, gotta give props to old man Fisher. He hit two huge shots in the 4th quarter tonight.

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ObamaFan is offline Old 06-07-2012, 01:03 AM   #1823
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Benching a guy like K Mart or T Will who were playing like s**t and/or bad attitude/bad effort isn't the same as shutting a guy like Russell out of a few games. WB seems like the kind of player Mchale would fall in love with even on bad nights because when he loses his cool it's because he's competitive and he always plays all out. I'm not a huge Mchale fan, but, you can't say he would bench guys who play all-out.

Well thats why i said a rookie Russell Westbrook

its easy to say yes now
 
supdudes is offline Old 06-07-2012, 01:07 AM   #1824
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These guys better not lose to the Heat....
 
jopatmc is offline Old 06-07-2012, 01:07 AM   #1825
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LMAO. Just man up and admit you were wrong. The game has changed to be an open court, guard oriented league similar to the NCAA tournament. It's not going anywhere either.

I am wrong.



Until

Dwight Howard gets paired up with an All-Star point guard and a 4 that can shoot the 3 and defend and two wings that can shoot the 3 and defend.



or



Until

Pau is traded to a team that will play him at center alongside another superstar point guard and one other big that can shoot from deep and spread the floor.

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Now we have to build a team that can beat the Thunder, Lakers, and Heat.
 
Kam is offline Old 06-07-2012, 01:07 AM   #1826
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Saw AB put this up.

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DVauthrin is offline Old 06-07-2012, 01:13 AM   #1827
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Originally Posted by jopatmc View Post
I am wrong.



Until

Dwight Howard gets paired up with an All-Star point guard and a 4 that can shoot the 3 and defend and two wings that can shoot the 3 and defend.



or



Until

Pau is traded to a team that will play him at center alongside another superstar point guard and one other big that can shoot from deep and spread the floor.
Pau Gasol is far from a dominant post player. Sure, he can play there on occasion, but he's soft as hell, and loves to step out and hit mid range shots. Using him as an example is laughable.

As for Dwight Howard, let me know when he gets paired with a team that has all those pieces. If two hypothetical scenarios are the best you can do in a 30 team league, it proves our point, not yours. The NBA has transitioned to a guard oriented, open court game based on versatility.

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A_3PO is online now Old 06-07-2012, 01:22 AM   #1828
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Originally Posted by jopatmc View Post
I'm just saying if they win a C, it will be an exception to the rule. You have to go back to the Jordan Bulls to find another team to win a C without a serious low post game. And even then, Jordan was doing a lot of posting up from the midblock.

I did see Durant posting up some tonight. But they don't do it enough.......yet. They are not a balanced offensive team. They are the exception.
How do you define balance? When you have 3 guys who can all (1) create/dish, (2) finish hard/athletic at the rim, (3) drill 3-pointers, (4) pull up off the dribble, (5) slash off the ball and (6) PnR with each other or anyone else on the floor, where is the lack of balance? OKC scores from everywhere on the floor, including from close in. They are plenty balanced. You are limiting the definition of "close in" to be back-to-the-basket. By your own words, the Lakers have 3 of the top 10 post players in the NBA and OKC kicked them in the rump even though Perkins played on one leg. I guess having all that post-up ability wasn't enough against a truly balanced team.

I'm saying in today's NBA, post-ups aren't the defining factor for success or even the best way to score within 10-feet. The game has changed from the 90s.

IMO, the main problem OKC has is Perkins inability to finish. He has no dexterity, touch, niftiness or hops from close-in. Ibaka can scoop, slam, hook and even shoot mid-range jumpers. But Perk can't do much of anything except slam or hit an unassisted layup. Ibaka also needs to improve his PnR instincts on both ends. Maybe when gains a few pounds and gets some sand in his britches he can replace Perkins at C in two years.

OKC is indeed the exception. There is no team like them.

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I only take it far because Kobe is so overrated. He has never positively impacted his team despite winning tons of press and accolades.
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daywalker02 is offline Old 06-07-2012, 01:29 AM   #1829
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Man I can say this now.......Screw the Spurs
finally, just didn't look to go away.....
Have a nice fishing weekend......

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[CBS] It's hard to say what could really get Howard back in the good graces of the public eye other than winning. The Rockets probably have to make at least the second round this season and he needs to be the best player on the team.
 
daywalker02 is offline Old 06-07-2012, 01:31 AM   #1830
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Listening to Barkley, I still agree. OKC is too reliant on the jump shot. Even if they win a championship, I still think they shoot too many jumpers.
So the Spurs were reliant on 3 point shots..... that is normally more like a tossup

Mid range game over 3 pt shots every day of the week

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[CBS] It's hard to say what could really get Howard back in the good graces of the public eye other than winning. The Rockets probably have to make at least the second round this season and he needs to be the best player on the team.
 
rolyat93 is offline Old 06-07-2012, 01:58 AM   #1831
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Well thats why i said a rookie Russell Westbrook

its easy to say yes now
If he played hard with tough D, he'd still get minutes like Parsons did this year.
 
jopatmc is offline Old 06-07-2012, 07:05 AM   #1832
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Originally Posted by A_3PO View Post
How do you define balance? When you have 3 guys who can all (1) create/dish, (2) finish hard/athletic at the rim, (3) drill 3-pointers, (4) pull up off the dribble, (5) slash off the ball and (6) PnR with each other or anyone else on the floor, where is the lack of balance? OKC scores from everywhere on the floor, including from close in. They are plenty balanced. You are limiting the definition of "close in" to be back-to-the-basket. By your own words, the Lakers have 3 of the top 10 post players in the NBA and OKC kicked them in the rump even though Perkins played on one leg. I guess having all that post-up ability wasn't enough against a truly balanced team.

I'm saying in today's NBA, post-ups aren't the defining factor for success or even the best way to score within 10-feet. The game has changed from the 90s.

IMO, the main problem OKC has is Perkins inability to finish. He has no dexterity, touch, niftiness or hops from close-in. Ibaka can scoop, slam, hook and even shoot mid-range jumpers. But Perk can't do much of anything except slam or hit an unassisted layup. Ibaka also needs to improve his PnR instincts on both ends. Maybe when gains a few pounds and gets some sand in his britches he can replace Perkins at C in two years.

OKC is indeed the exception. There is no team like them.

Balance simply means the ability to play half-court back to the basket just as well as playing face up basketball. Sure they can shoot close in, they can drive, they're are wildly athletic, they can finish. But their whole game is predicated on their face-up ability. They are the best face-up team ever assembled in my opinion. And it appears that they are going to break through based on that fantastic face-up game.

I realize the game has changed. But it will change again. The game is always changing as the NBA makes rule adjustments, etc. Can you guess what is going to happen next??? I have some sneaking suspicions. And here's one of them. What if....the league determines this offseason that they have to stop all the illegal screens by the bigs out top???? (It is getting ridiculous.) And that is one of the primary reasons why this whole league is running PnR basketball ad nauseum. Because they can get away with that moving pick. But if the league clamps down on that, then PnR basketball, although still a foundation basketball play, will not be run 90% of the time like it is now. And with that one rule change, back-to-the-basket basketball becomes vitally important again. (It's still vitally important. Just because there is a dearth of great big men doesn't mean back-to-the-basket basketball isn't important. That's why I'm all over us trying to get Dwight. And frankly, that's why I am convinced Jared Sullinger is going to be a serious player in the NBA. And that is why Luis Scola holds such high trade value even though most people think he's over-the-hill and on a bad contract.)

Oh, and how about this one? What if the league decides it needs to preserve the rule of verticality, you know the fundamental basketball rule that states if a defender jumps and goes straight up vertical and he doesn't reach out but shoots his arms straight up and the offensive player runs into him that the offensive player committed an offensive foul? What is that going to do to face-up basketball??

Yeah, the league is different right now. But it's temporary. The rule changes are coming. The tide is constantly turning. One of the NBA's greatest attractions is it is where fans go to see true GIANTS play while being able to watch average sized men and even a few sensational little men be able to dominate as well. So, back-to-the-basket basketball is not dead, not by any stretch of the imagination. The rule changes have overbalanced in favor of the perimeter guys that can dribble drive off a pick and can shoot the 3. But just a few tweaks (and they are coming) and we're back to more balance between face-up and back-to-the-basket style.

And I haven't even gotten to mention yet, just a few trades away from serious back-to-the-basket play again. First of all, if you break up Pau and Bynum and each man becomes the main post option on their respective teams, both guys will look so much better. And then if they are paired with good perimeter players, those teams will be contenders. And then here's the biggie. If Dwight Howard ever gets to play on a team with a great point guard and perimeter players, his team will be a true contender.

Last night I had this dream. In my dream, Goran Dragic was chasing Westbrook around all over the place, frustrating the dickens out of him. On the wing, Deron Williams was face-up defending James Harden making it difficult for Harden to even get loose to catch the ball. On the other wing, Chandler Parsons was dogging the dickens out of Durant. They were all playing up close, not worrying about getting beat to the rim. And then I looked in the paint and there was Dwight just trying to barely touch Ibaka and Motie was fronting Perkins on the baseline. They finally forced a tough contested perimeter jumper, Dwight gobbled up the rebound, and up the floor they came as a unit. Now the shoe was on the other foot. Westbrook had Dragic, Harden had DWill, Durant was on Parsons playing midway because he was cheating playing off to help the other guys. Motie was in the far corner. And there was Dwight in the box. Perkins was trying to root him out. But it was impossible. They threw it in to Dwight, he took one dribble and the scramble was on. And the dream ended right there.


Don't underestimate back-to-the-basket post play. It's still a vital part of championship basketball.

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Now we have to build a team that can beat the Thunder, Lakers, and Heat.
 
Yung-T is offline Old 06-07-2012, 07:08 AM   #1833
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These guys better not lose to the Heat....
Celtics will kill Miami tonight man, OKC will face Boston.

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Zboy is offline Old 06-07-2012, 07:33 AM   #1834
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Originally Posted by jopatmc View Post
Balance simply means the ability to play half-court back to the basket just as well as playing face up basketball. Sure they can shoot close in, they can drive, they're are wildly athletic, they can finish. But their whole game is predicated on their face-up ability. They are the best face-up team ever assembled in my opinion. And it appears that they are going to break through based on that fantastic face-up game.

I realize the game has changed. But it will change again. The game is always changing as the NBA makes rule adjustments, etc. Can you guess what is going to happen next??? I have some sneaking suspicions. And here's one of them. What if....the league determines this offseason that they have to stop all the illegal screens by the bigs out top???? (It is getting ridiculous.) And that is one of the primary reasons why this whole league is running PnR basketball ad nauseum. Because they can get away with that moving pick. But if the league clamps down on that, then PnR basketball, although still a foundation basketball play, will not be run 90% of the time like it is now. And with that one rule change, back-to-the-basket basketball becomes vitally important again. (It's still vitally important. Just because there is a dearth of great big men doesn't mean back-to-the-basket basketball isn't important. That's why I'm all over us trying to get Dwight. And frankly, that's why I am convinced Jared Sullinger is going to be a serious player in the NBA. And that is why Luis Scola holds such high trade value even though most people think he's over-the-hill and on a bad contract.)

Oh, and how about this one? What if the league decides it needs to preserve the rule of verticality, you know the fundamental basketball rule that states if a defender jumps and goes straight up vertical and he doesn't reach out but shoots his arms straight up and the offensive player runs into him that the offensive player committed an offensive foul? What is that going to do to face-up basketball??

Yeah, the league is different right now. But it's temporary. The rule changes are coming. The tide is constantly turning. One of the NBA's greatest attractions is it is where fans go to see true GIANTS play while being able to watch average sized men and even a few sensational little men be able to dominate as well. So, back-to-the-basket basketball is not dead, not by any stretch of the imagination. The rule changes have overbalanced in favor of the perimeter guys that can dribble drive off a pick and can shoot the 3. But just a few tweaks (and they are coming) and we're back to more balance between face-up and back-to-the-basket style.

And I haven't even gotten to mention yet, just a few trades away from serious back-to-the-basket play again. First of all, if you break up Pau and Bynum and each man becomes the main post option on their respective teams, both guys will look so much better. And then if they are paired with good perimeter players, those teams will be contenders. And then here's the biggie. If Dwight Howard ever gets to play on a team with a great point guard and perimeter players, his team will be a true contender.

Last night I had this dream. In my dream, Goran Dragic was chasing Westbrook around all over the place, frustrating the dickens out of him. On the wing, Deron Williams was face-up defending James Harden making it difficult for Harden to even get loose to catch the ball. On the other wing, Chandler Parsons was dogging the dickens out of Durant. They were all playing up close, not worrying about getting beat to the rim. And then I looked in the paint and there was Dwight just trying to barely touch Ibaka and Motie was fronting Perkins on the baseline. They finally forced a tough contested perimeter jumper, Dwight gobbled up the rebound, and up the floor they came as a unit. Now the shoe was on the other foot. Westbrook had Dragic, Harden had DWill, Durant was on Parsons playing midway because he was cheating playing off to help the other guys. Motie was in the far corner. And there was Dwight in the box. Perkins was trying to root him out. But it was impossible. They threw it in to Dwight, he took one dribble and the scramble was on. And the dream ended right there.


Don't underestimate back-to-the-basket post play. It's still a vital part of championship basketball.
You and your what ifs....


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bullardfan is offline Old 06-07-2012, 08:20 AM   #1835
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holy crap! this is the first time i called a series correctly. although i really started to question "thunder in 6" after game 2. go OKC. I really like their team and the atmosphere they have. Reminds me of the championship Rockets teams. Scotty Brooks is doing a hell of a job there.

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BigBenito is offline Old 06-07-2012, 05:10 PM   #1836
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http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...s-winning-play

Good writeup by Pruiti - evolution of the Westbrook offball pick play that the Thunder had been using to get KD open. (Link has multiple video/picture examples of the plays.)
Quote:
As they sought to close out the San Antonio Spurs on Wednesday night, the Oklahoma City Thunder needed to keep scoring in the fourth quarter. To do so, they went to that play that confused the San Antonio defense and allowed Kevin Durant to score 16 straight points in the fourth quarter of Game 4. They went to their pin-down play, where Russell Westbrook sets a pin-down screen for Durant as James Harden handles the basketball. The scheme produced 10 points on just four possessions, and each time they ran it, the Thunder went to a different option and a different player scored
.
 
TheFreak is offline Old 06-07-2012, 11:33 PM   #1837
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I guess the best coach in the league wasn't good enough to get the team with the best record in the league to the Finals. Again.
 
boomboom is offline Old 06-08-2012, 10:33 AM   #1838
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