The problem with Islam

steve francis · 09-13-2001, 06:37 PM

Before I begin, please note that this is not an attack on the many good Muslims throughout the world. The vast majority of them are not involved in terrorism or hate mongering. The problem that I have is with a faith like Islam that inspires more than a few of its followers to aggression and occasionally terrorism. I know of no major religion in our age that has caused it's followers to adopt such violent tactics and intolerance for other viewpoints. I have heard many people say that "Muslims are fanatics" in the past, but until Tuesday, I didn't fully believe it. We haven't seen such mass aggression from either modern day Jews, Christians, Buddhists, or Hindus. But many people associate terrorism with Islam-inspired zealots. Yes, Christians and followers of other faiths have committed many attrocities in past eras, but in our modern day of international law and ethics, Muslim extremists tend to cause more damage than people of other faiths. Just look at Louis Farrakkhan and his message of hate. I just don't understand it.

**Dr of Dunk** · 09-13-2001, 06:43 PM

Don't confuse the Nation of Islam with Islam.
And don't confuse yourself into thinking that Christians are somehow "nice guys". There are Christians that are racists, bigots, preach hate, etc.

Stop judging things in the distance... try judging the stuff right in front of you first.

Islam is inherently no worse a religion than Christianity or any other religion. It's got its share of whackos just like Christianity does.

BTW, I use Christianity as an example because I was raised a Christian...

Tolpatcsh Verkinder · 09-13-2001, 06:43 PM

Islam is not a hate filled religion. You are clearly misinformed.

SamCassell · 09-13-2001, 06:50 PM

I agree with DoD and Puedlfor. You can't take isolated acts by a few terrorists and generalize upon an entire religion, encompassing hundreds of millions of people. Unfortunately I'll guess that this type of sentiment is probably fairly widespread in our country at the moment.

**Jeff** · 09-13-2001, 06:55 PM

Hate does not discriminate. Every religion has extremists.

3fingeredgus · 09-13-2001, 06:58 PM

I agree with all the reactions to this post. While there have been several terrorist activities associated w/ some Muslims it is very unfair to generalize that all people who follow the Islam faith are taught to use these tactics. I think that crazy people can be found in any religion in the world. This is a problem with sick people, not the religion.

gr8-1 · 09-13-2001, 06:59 PM

I agree. More blood has been shed in the name of God than anything else.

I too made a rash judgement when I pointed to Islam as the catalyst to this attack. Bin Laden is just a sick guy.

steve francis · 09-13-2001, 07:25 PM

There are certainly extremists in every religion, but why is it that most of the terrorist acts over the past 20 or 30 years were committed by Muslims?

ScreamingRocketJet · 09-13-2001, 07:32 PM

Jeff

I have yet to come across 'Buddhist extremists'...possibly the worlds greatest oxymoron

haven · 09-13-2001, 07:36 PM

Quote:

There are certainly extremists in every religion, but why is it that most of the
terrorist acts over the past 20 or 30 years were committed by Muslims?

Have they, really? Terrorism has been frequent in Northern Ireland. There were incidents in Japan in the 90's. In the US, most terrorism has been domestic. Terrorism between government/rebel forces in South America has been horrible.

I think, generally, that terrorism is the last resort of people who lack the ability to fight up-front... and who reject superior, ethical methods of protest like the passive resistance of Gandhi and MLK. Insofar as Islamic states are poorer, on balance, than Christian states, you'll have more terrorism with Islamic origins.

Ottomaton · 09-13-2001, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ScreamingRocketJet
Jeff

I have yet to come across 'Buddhist extremists'...possibly the worlds greatest oxymoron

How about those monks that beat the crap out of eachother a couple of years ago about which group would retain ownership of some temple somewhere? Or maybe those monks in Vietnam who set themselves on fire to protest?

I think one of the big factors in having extremists kill others is the 'conversion' factor. Islam and Chrisitianity both try to convert others to the faith, and both have long histories of killing others in the name of faith, while with Judiasm and Buddahism, extremists tend to become introverted and just want to be left alone.

Smokey · 09-13-2001, 07:43 PM

steve francis, that is your generalization. If you looked at all acts of terrorism committed in the past 20-30 years, you would find that these acts have been spread equally among followers of all religions. I, too, can make a generalization like yours. Why does it seem like most [fill in any group here] like to steal? Everyone is entitled to their opinion but that does not necessarily make it true.

THE BREESE · 09-13-2001, 07:56 PM

Look at the wars in Ireland that have been going on for dacades and centuries. They are all religious wars between Catholics and Protestants.

ScreamingRocketJet · 09-13-2001, 08:40 PM

Otto

Where????

As regards the Vietnam protests...those Monks did that as a protest against violence...hurting no one...

Vaevictis · 09-13-2001, 09:02 PM

How about this --:

According to my understanding, the god of Islam is the god of Christianity is the god of Judaism.

The difference -- again, according to my understanding:

Islam: There is but one god, and Muhammad is his prophet.
Christianity: Jesus was the son of god and the Messiah.
Judaism: Jesus was not the Messiah, nor was Muhammad a prophet.

But, strip away the details, and you have the same religion -- all at the core advocate compassion, law, spirituality, and moral action.

But, as usual, the devil's in the details, and that's why you have such conflict over the religions. The Devil is in the details.

---------------------

In conclusion:

DO NOT BE FOOLED BY THE SLEIGHT OF HAND USED BY THOSE WHO KILL IN THE NAME OF GOD.

They are using God -- or MISUSING, rather -- to justify and advance their own vile actions and secular goals.

It is that simple. DO NOT BE FOOLED.

Ottomaton · 09-13-2001, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ScreamingRocketJet
Otto

Where????

As regards the Vietnam protests...those Monks did that as a protest against violence...hurting no one...

I'm not judging one way or the other, but you have to admit, it's a fairly extreeme thing to do....

As for fighting monks, here's a link.

There's also been a video that has bounced around the internet for a while that is kinda graphic...

**Dr of Dunk** · 09-13-2001, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by steve francis
There are certainly extremists in every religion, but why is it that most of the terrorist acts over the past 20 or 30 years were committed by Muslims?

Yeah... especially the terror of such acts in the modern age such as World War I, World War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, etc. Oh boy, nothin' but Muslims in those wars. Oh wait, but those aren't terrorist acts, are they? They're just peaceful little spats.

You sound so confused.

Dolfox · 09-14-2001, 01:32 AM

this perception of Islam is quite common in this country. Islam is the most prominant religion outside of the Judeo/Christian realm, so we are confronted with huge cultural differences. No one was throwing molotov cocktails at Baptist churches after the Oklahoma City bombings. If you understand the true teachings of Islam, as with all other religions, you will find that the core of the religion is a deep respect for life and for those outside their own religion. When the Taliban ordered the destruction of the statues of Buddha in Afghanistan, they were roundly criticized by their own fellow Muslims. This is a sign that these people stand against the true teachings of Islam. They are not true Muslims

As for comparing one religions attrocities versus anothers, I, as a Roman Catholic, cannot talk, as the whole history of Western Civilization is defined by one brutal act after another in the name of Catholiscism. No religion is exempt from this. As members of religion, we inheret the sins of our forefathers, it is our duty not to repeat them.

Hatred is not a religion.

dream_team · 09-14-2001, 03:31 AM

steven francis,

can you please back up your argument that most acts of terrorism in the past have been done by Muslims with facts?

as Americans, I think we were raised to believe terrorists most likely come from the Middle East and are of the Islam religion. this is very evident in American movies. in movies, when portraying terrorists, writers seem to always make them Middle Eastern Muslims (for example: Executive Decision and The Siege). or when acts of terrorism occurs in the US, pictures and names of Middle Eastern people are the first to pop up on the TV and on the newspaper. even if the convicted person doesn't end up being a Middle Eastern Muslim, their image is still stuck in our head as terrorist.

so i don't blame you, steve francis, for thinking this... because most American were conditionally raised to believe this.

haven · 09-14-2001, 03:44 AM

You know, there is a classic response to this question... although I'm not sure I buy it entirely.

It goes:

Islamic culture (NOT religion) is communal in nature. The community is placed above the individual.

In the West, the opposite is predominately true.

I'm sure most of us can agree on this. It follows that people who place the triumph of "the faith" or "their culture" over their personal survival would view terrorism as a more viable option. While your normal Westerner might not.

That's not saying that Westerners aren't brave. Simply that the threshold is different.